RE : suggestions on a good firewall

[Bourque Daniel <Daniel.Bourque () loto-quebec com>]

Correct me if I am wrong but with Checkpoint, the smtp security server allow
you to terminate the smtp session at the fw that will in turn send it to
your smtp mail server.

If you telnet to port 25, it's the fw talking back.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Ivan Coric [mailto:ivan.coric () workcoverqld com au] 
Envoyé : 22 juin, 2003 19:24
À : Willi.Web () mail4web de; security-basics () securityfocus com;
David.Ellis () unicam com; ivan.coric () workcoverqld com au
Objet : RE: suggestions on a good firewall


Lets take the SMTP protocol for example, fixup SMTP enables the mail guard
feature which only lets mail servers receive the RFC 821 commands of HELO,
MAIL, RCPT, DATA, RSET, NOOP and QUIT. All other commends are rejected.

If you want to do a similar thing in CheckPoint you will need to provide the
INSPECT code to do it.

I can netcat through my CheckPoint FW to my mail servers, web servers etc.
Even do a HEAD request to get a banner of the web server and the CP FW does
it happily.

cheers
Ivan


> > > Willi Web <Willi.Web () mail4web de> 06/20/03 10:25pm >>>
The FIXUP protocol is there to correct irregular behavior in normal
protocols. For example, the FTP Fixup allows traffic in on port 20 when the
traffic originated on 21. The SMTP fixup disallows certain SMTP commands
that could be used for nefarious purposes. The PIX cannot shun traffic based
on what the FIXUP protocols detect. There is no dynamic ACL creation
possible.

The PIX is not a true application level firewall. I can send NETCAT traffic
over HTTP and the PIX will never know. Whereas the Checkpoints and Raptors
can detect anomalies in traffic, and act on them.

--Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Coric [mailto:ivan.coric () workcoverqld com au] 
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:42 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com; Christopher Harrington;
David.Ellis () unicam com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall


HI Chris,
I beg to differ, Cisco has a command called "fixup", which is used to set
application inspection.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/secursw/ps2120/products_configura

tion_guide_chapter09186a00800eb727.html#wp1063233


cheers



Ivan Coric
IT Technical Security Officer
Information Technology
WorkCover Queensland
Ph: (07) 30066414 Fax: (07) 30066424
Email: ivan.coric () workcoverqld com au 

> > > "Christopher Harrington" <charrington () syseng com> 05/25/03 12:51pm
Ok...I agree that they 2 are different firewalls. Cisco does not do
application level inspection, Checkpoint does for example.

NG fp3 came out fall of 2002 (about ??), about the same time as PIX 6.2. We
are tied :), the PIX has had 2 vulns since version 6.2 came out.

BTW I never said I disliked Checkpoint, to the contrary actually. I just
take exceptions to incorrect statements. 

--Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ellis [mailto:David.Ellis () unicam com] 
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:53 PM
To: Christopher Harrington; security-basics () securityfocus com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall


I am talking about the new version of checkpoint, not 4.1 or 4.0. I am
talking about NGFP3. Checkpoint doesn't even support the earlier versions
anymore. And Cisco's Idea of stateful packet inspection is actually reverse
engineered Checkpoint. Checkpoint developed it and even have a patent on
stateful packet inspection technology. They even tried to bring Cisco to
court for saying they were stateful packet inspection firewalls but Cisco
won due to the way they worded it. Also OPSEC standards (Open Platform for
Security) Is brought to you by Checkpoint Systems. I love Checkpoint
firewalls as you can see. :-) 
They also have a secure platform which can load on a system which runs on a
stripped down linux and you can even go with nokia appliance which comes
with Checkpoint NG. I personally think Cisco should stay with routers and
switches (which they are great at).

Then look at the stats after you look up checkpoint NG fp3

# of vulns on PIX   --->  16
# of vulns on Checkpoint  ---> 2

Thanks for listening :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Harrington [mailto:charrington () syseng com] 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall

Ahhh...maybe you should actually look at bugtraq before you open yourself up
like that.

# of vulns on PIX   --->  16
# of vulns on Checkpoint  ---> 30

"A new vulnerability is found every other week"...unfounded comments like
that do not help.

--Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: David Ellis [mailto:David.Ellis () unicam com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 12:34 PM
To: Potter, Tim; security-basics () securityfocus com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall


Actually the checkpoint implied rules are not actually hidden. You just
enable and disable through global properties, and I prefer checkpoint over
pix cause just look at the bugtraq record on pix. A new vulnerability is
found every other week

-----Original Message-----
From: Potter, Tim [mailto:Tim.Potter () clarkconsulting com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:07 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall


Actually the PIX does have a "pretty" graphical interface.  I'm not fond of
it for many tasks, but the "PDM" can be good for someone newer to managing a
PIX.

Also, for a cheaper hardware-based application firewall I would go with the
Watchguard.  My application firewall of choice would be Sidewinder or
Checkpoint, but you can't beat the cost of the Watchguard.  Older versions
of the firmware required a reboot for every change, but they have gotten
much better with the newest firmware.

-Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Ng [mailto:laptopalias1-mark () informationintelligence net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:56 AM
To: salgak () speakeasy net; security-basics () securityfocus com 
Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall



> Agreed.
>
> A Windows box, properly locked down, can be a reliable firewall.

There's an element of truth to that - but I'm not sure I'd want to be the
person locking it down or keeping up to date with patches ;).  I also
wouldn't recommend Windows unless in an HA pair.

There's also a very strong argument for openbsd and PF too (stability,
proven track record of security) - however, it's not as manageable as some
other solutions.

> Locking it down can be a chore, a much easier chore with Win2003 
> server, but still takes some expertise and finesse.  I prefer

I've not yet had any experience with 2k3, so I can't possibly comment.

> hardware firewalls with a firmware basis, as they're harder to 
> exploit, but many brands have reliability issues.  I'm currently 
> running Checkpoint and Gauntlet on Solaris, but this is a production

> environment I've inherited.

If you're in the hardware firewall market, I quite like Netscreen and PIX.
Netscreen had some issues with some software upgrades being a bit buggy some
time recently though iirc, but on the whole, they're fairly solid firewalls
that are easy to administer.  PIX's of course don't have the pretty
graphical interface, but are solid firewalls.  I don't like Checkpoint, any
firewall that comes by default with "Hidden Implied Rules" doesn't wash with
me (is this still the case with newer versions of Checkpoint ?)

> For a good, relatively inexpensive firewall, I'd recommend the 
> Linux-Mandrake firewall solution, running on commodity Intel
hardware.

> Simple to set up, fairly easy to run, easy to maintain.

Smoothwall definitely has its merits in this arena - and by extension I'd
imagine IPcop does too.


> 2. What can my sysadmin handle ?  A Junior MCSE handed a

To be honest, I don't really think an MCSE with small amounts of job
experience should ever be handed main security responsibility. 
There's
merit to outsourcing security functions in this event if you're too small to
justify full time security staff or experienced systems administrators with
security experience.  Any firewall configured badly is a bad firewall, be it
IPcop, Smoothwall, OpenBSD/PF , Checkpoint or whatever.

Regards,


Mark



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