RE: Consulting Question

["Craig Wright" <Craig.Wright () bdo com au>]

Chris,
My take would be:
1       Does the company have a statement on their site that
categorically allows you to find other means of access and check the
code?
2       Do they categorically and clearly state that they allow all
forms of deep browsing?
3       Do they ask for you to check and find possible vulnerabilities?
4       Do you have a (good) prior contract with the firm to engage in
these actions.

If the answer is not "yes" to all three you have committed a trespass.
There are limits on an implied access to a website. Any implied (i.e.
not express access as mention above) access is limited by the aims of
the firm and convention. Although public, websites are not designed to
be targets (though they may end up as one).

The result is that you have in fact breached the website owners property
rights. The result is that in most (US, AU, NZ, EU) jurisdictions, you
have committed a crime if you do this action.

If you approach the firm - you have provided them evidence. If you post
it to a list in this case there is evidence.

Being public knowledge is not a shield. Estoppel provisions will not
help you other than in for maybe downstream civil consequences. Google
hacking is still a violation. The information is in Google, but you have
to take an informed action to uncover it. This makes up intent.

Regards,
Craig



Craig Wright
Manager of Information Systems

Direct +61 2 9286 5497
Craig.Wright () bdo com au
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-----Original Message-----

From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of Simmons, James
Sent: Thursday, 10 May 2007 4:55 AM
To: sammons () cs utk edu; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Consulting Question

I wont mention about how what you said was wrong since others have
already commented. But for your disclosure I would suggest 3com's Zero
Day Initiative, if in fact what you found was a zero day.
http://www.zerodayinitiative.com/ 
If you found an existing exploit with their site, then I would be very
careful in how you approach this. It really depends on how you found it
(i.e.. some google hacking). Or were you illegally scanning this
companies systems? If it was a google hack, then an argument can be made
that it is public knowledge and thus you COULD be shielded from legal
action. (Of course this is theoretical, as the company can sue you just
because ... See MPAA and RIAA lawsuits for references.) 
Personally, I really wouldn't mention it to the company (unless you are
proof positive of your legal standing), and just solicit them for your
services like a professional.


Regards,

Simmons

-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of sammons () cs utk edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:32 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: Consulting Question

Hello All,

  I would like to get my feet wet doing some general security
consultation work (network audits, penetration testing, etc.). My
questions concerns a proper approach to potential clients. Consider this
situation, I have found a few vulnerabilities in the company's web
application product that could lead to potential identity theft and
system compromise. This being a relatively large company, how would one
go about informing the company about this vulnerability without them
leaving you 100% out of the equation?

  In the case that the company is not interested in further third-party
assistance I have a second question (concerning credit for finding such
vulnerability). What is the proper/ethical protocol for publishing a
software vulnerability? Are there any other methods that would insure
credit while protecting the company from mass exploitation? I thank you
in advanced for your input.

Best Regards,

Chris