Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: NAT external/Public IP
From: "Dan Lynch" <DLynch () placer ca gov>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:16:55 -0700
Strictly speaking for address translation only, and not ACLs or firewall rules, I believe that PAT does make a host more secure, not because it obscures a host's native IP address, but because it is a one-way function. PAT is dynamically created. As the client host initiates a new connection, a new port is opened at the translating device. That port is closed when the connection is torn down. Just as a server cannot exploit a client's dynamically opened ephemeral port for a new connection, new connections cannot be made through a PAT back to a client host. A one-to-one NAT on the other hand _can_ (not must) allow connections to be established in both directions. I think it's this distinction that led to the PCI requirement under discussion. - Dan P.S. - That said, a firewall performing address translation services (PAT or NAT) for a population of clients should regardless have a rule blocking inbound access just for good measure. P.P.S. - Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe inbound connections into your LAN from your primary MTA to your internal mail server is how most internet email gets delivered to internal users. Dan Lynch, CISSP Information Technology Analyst County of Placer Auburn, CA
-----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:04 AM To: security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: Re: NAT external/Public IP On 2007-10-30 Grant Donald wrote:With PAT private IP addresses are hidden from the outsideworld. Thisbasically makes the job of hacking into a system more difficult, because the original host's IP address and source port is unknown.This is mere obscurity. It doesn't make a host any more or less secure than it already is. Like I said before: either a host is secure, then it doesn't matter if an attacker knows the address, or it isn't secure, then you're "security" is based on the hope that an attacker won't discover the host.Depending on firewall capabilities (or lack ofcapabilities) ports mayneed to be opened inbound for certain applications to work (e.g.. ident & pptp). A horizontal scan of such a network could produce a wealth of knowledge, if that network does not support port address translation.Ummm... wot? Why would you want to allow any inbound connections into your LAN? And how would an attacker be able to scan your network from the outside? For some obscure reason you seem to assume that using public IP addresses in your LAN means that the firewall at the perimeter magically allows access from WAN to LAN. This assumption is wrong. Regards Ansgar Wiechers -- "All vulnerabilities deserve a public fear period prior to patches becoming available." --Jason Coombs on Bugtraq
Current thread:
- RE: NAT external/Public IP, (continued)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Jason Alexander (Oct 25)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Eric Furman (Oct 25)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Jason Alexander (Oct 26)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Grant Donald (Oct 29)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers (Oct 29)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Michael Painter (Oct 30)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Grant Donald (Oct 30)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers (Oct 30)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Security Incidents (Oct 30)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP crazy frog crazy frog (Oct 31)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Dan Lynch (Oct 31)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Chris Barber (Oct 25)
- RE: NAT external/Public IP Nick Vaernhoej (Oct 25)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers (Oct 25)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Brett (Oct 25)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP crazy frog crazy frog (Oct 25)
- Re: NAT external/Public IP Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers (Oct 25)