RE: Life, the Universe, and Everything (was: Exactly 500 word essay on"Why hacking is cool, so that Marcus changes his web site")

["Bryan McAninch" <bryan () mcaninch org>]

In an effort to provide a diplomatic solution to this, I'll defer this topic
to the laws of science. :)

Quantum physics (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle) states all outcomes of
a particle's spatial and temporal location are equiprobable until an
observation is made. Once an observation is made, the particle's probability
wave function instantaneously surges to 100% where a particle is found and
drops to 0% everywhere else (in the known universe) where the object is not
found. 

Schrödinger's cat, I believe, is the analogue of the discussion below,
regardless of how the cat in the box is defined.

Cheers,
Bryan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jos Pols [mailto:jos () timbukone com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 01:41 AM
To: 'I)ruid'
Cc: dailydave () lists immunitysec com
Subject: RE: [Dailydave] Life, the Universe,and Everything (was: Exactly 500
word essay on"Why hacking is cool,so that Marcus changes his web site")


> In conclusion, I ask you this;  If a tree falls in the woods, and no 
> one is around to hear, does it make a sound?  I'd guess that you'd say 
> no, it doesn't because there are no ears on which the sound could fall.  
> Or maybe you were around and closed your eyes and covered your ears.  
> But of course it does.  It always makes a sound.  Even if you try not 
> to see or hear it and it lands square on your head.  Unless it falls in 
> the vacuum of space, but then, is it really falling at all?
> Or floating? Or does floating imply that there are air molecules within 
> which to float?

Not to digress even further :) - 

That would depend on your definition of sound. imo, sound requires not two
but three things; (1) a source of the sound (tree falling), (2) a medium
though which the sound shock wave can travel (air), and a receiver to
convert the shock wave into an understandable / interpretable sensation
which we call sound (ear). No receiver, no sound. Only air displacement. The
definition depends on where you choose to define it from step 1 to 3.

Marcus' point is that it is not the existence of the vulnerability that is
the problem but the people that choose to exploit them. My house is
vulnerable to attack, it cannot be full proof. But that is ok so long as
people do not choose to attack it (for possibly a whole variety of reasons).
To *only* blame an attack on the existence of the vulnerability places the
blame on the victim and not the perpetrator.

-jos-


> In conclusion, I ask you this;  If a tree falls in the woods, and no 
> one is around to hear, does it make a sound?  I'd guess that you'd say 
> no, it doesn't because there are no ears on which the sound could fall.  
> Or maybe you were around and closed your eyes and covered your ears.  
> But of course it does.  It always makes a sound.  Even if you try not 
> to see or hear it and it lands square on your head.  Unless it falls in 
> the vacuum of space, but then, is it really falling at all?
> Or floating? Or does floating imply that there are air molecules within 
> which to float?

I(ruid, not to digress even further :) - 

That would depend on your definition of sound. imo, sound requires not two
but three things; (1) a source of the sound (tree falling), (2) a medium
though which the sound shock wave can travel (air), and a receiver to
convert the shock wave into an understandable / interpretable sensation
which we call sound (ear). No receiver, no sound. Only air displacement. The
definition depends on where you choose to define it from step 1 to 3.

Marcus' point is that it is not the existence of the vulnerability that is
the problem but the people that choose to exploit them. My house is
vulnerable to attack, it cannot be full proof. But that is ok so long as
people do not choose to attack it (for possibly a whole variety of reasons).
To *only* blame an attack on the existence of the vulnerability places the
blame on the victim and not the perpetrator.

-jos-