Educause Security Discussion mailing list archives
Re: Pen Test vendors
From: Sarah Stevens <sarah () STEVENS-TECHNOLOGIES COM>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:39:24 -0800
Zach, Thank you for the clarification. You are right, the penetration testing in 11.3 is different from the scanning in 11.2, and is different from the annual QSA review. During our QSA training, it was emphasized that in order to certify the PCI Compliance of our clients, we must be able to determine that the penetration testing was completed by a "qualified internal resource or qualified external third party, and if applicable, organizational independence of the tester exists." Thus, I would accept an internal network layer penetration test and application layer penetration test, if I could feel reasonably comfortable that the party performing the testing had independence from the business unit developing the application, and that any findings discovered during the testing had been addressed and retested. If you are going to develop internally, keep in mind that PCI makes the application level testing easy for you. In 6.5, they offer the OWASP Guide as a standard that you can use for your testing. Also note that the requirement insists that you perform testing at least once a year, and with any significant infrastructure or application upgrade or modification. Regardless of whether you choose to do this internally or externally, make sure that you document your methodology in regards to upgrades and modifications to applications that require testing. Your QSA will want to review to ensure your compliance. I hope that helps, and sorry for going down the 11.2 path instead of the 11.3 path the first time. :-) Sarah E Stevens, CISSP President Stevens Technologies, Inc. (704) 625-8842 x500 "Security solutions for your organization." CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please do not distribute and delete the original message. Please notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. Thank you for your compliance. -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Security Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU] On Behalf Of Zach Jansen Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:05 PM To: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU Subject: Re: [SECURITY] Pen Test vendors Thanks Mike and Sarah. I was referring to section 11.3 of PCI 1.2 (released October 2008) which states: 11.3 Perform external and internal penetration testing at least once a year and after any significant infrastructure or application upgrade or modification (such as an operating system upgrade, a subnetwork added to the environment, or a web server added to the environment). These penetration tests must include the following: This is distinct from vulnerability scanning (11.2) and I'm curious to know how others are handling (or planning to handle) the requirement. -- Zach Jansen Information Security Officer Calvin College Phone: 616.526.6776 Fax: 616.526.8550
On 1/13/2009 at 5:30 PM, in message
<D199343E42CC6A4F9E86B38F45B03CC063BACF () EXVBE014-11 exch014 msoutlookonline net> Sarah Stevens <sarah () STEVENS-TECHNOLOGIES COM> wrote:
Mike. You bring up valid points. The ASV only does the scanning. Most ASVs do this remotely. The QSA does the more in- depth control analysis, but true penetration testing is usually not conducted in either case. By "true pen test", I am referring to the services that we provide where we actually exploit vulnerabilities to circumvent controls, as a hacker would attempt to
do, and as you describe below. Sarah Stevens, CISSP, QSA Stevens Technologies, Inc. Sarah E Stevens Stevens Technologies, Inc. (704) 625-8842 x500 -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: The EDUCAUSE Security Constituent Group Listserv <SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU> To: SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU <SECURITY () LISTSERV EDUCAUSE EDU> Sent: Tue Jan 13 14:15:38 2009 Subject: Re: [SECURITY] Pen Test vendors Zach Jansen wrote:With PCI requiring annual penetration tests of the cardholder environment, is that motivation enough for people to start their own pentest programs? Are .edu's who are subject to PCI outsourcing this or developing internally?From section 11.2 of the PCI DSS:Run internal and external network vulnerability scans at least quarterly and after any significant change in the network (such as new system component installations, changes in network topology, firewall rule modifications, product upgrades). Note: Quarterly external vulnerability scans must be performed by an Approved Scanning Vendor (ASV) qualified by Payment Card Industry Security Standards Council (PCI SSC). Scans conducted after network changes may be performed by the company’s internal staff.So you can't meet the requirement without a quarterly scan by an ASV, but you're *also* supposed to be doing internal scans. It may be picking nits, but it's also worth noting that PCI requires a vulnerability scan, not a penetration test. Vulnerability scanning typically involves one or more (mostly) automated scan(s) for known vulnerabilities, optionally with manual verification of the results. Penetration testing typically involves attempting to find and exploit unknown vulnerabilities in custom code or to break into a deployment which is believed to have no publicly disclosed vulnerabilities. Folks typically have very different reasons for running vulnerability scans vs pen-tests, the quality of vendor you need is drastically different, and the price is also different by a few zeros. Thanks, Mike Lococo
Current thread:
- Re: Pen Test vendors, (continued)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Bob Henry (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Zach Jansen (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Mark Houpt (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Mike Lococo (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Sarah Stevens (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Sarah Stevens (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Sarah Stevens (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Felecia Vlahos (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Zach Jansen (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Morrow Long (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Sarah Stevens (Jan 13)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Peterman, Martin (mdp4s) (Jan 14)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Curt Wilson (Jan 15)
- Re: Pen Test vendors Walter E. Petruska (Jan 20)