Re[2]: Re: Ethics, morality and the industry

[gmx <carpathin.wolf () gmx net>]

Hello ArkanoiD,

i think, dividing the world into 'good' and 'bad' is an american
model... what is good ? What is bad ? Is good what conforms to our law
or justice ?If yes, it is good when morders are freed because of
missed proves ?
Is it good or bad if an 'hacker' breaks into a secret project, and
gets information eg. about HI-Virus, that its not natural, its a weapon
? Is that really 'bad' ? To say the truth ?
So what is 'good' and 'bad' , we are using those terms, without
thinking what they define...
I could count more examples, but its not the right place for taht, i
just wanted to point on some definitions.
Thanks for your patience.

Wednesday, November 10, 2004, 5:41:02 PM, you wrote:

<==============Original message text===============
A> I *WAS* a "bad guy" for a long time. But they did never catch me, so my
A> criminal record is clean ;-)

A> I'd even say "bad" and "good" are just players in the game. And it would be
A> unwise to blame black hats for lack of ethics: some of them follow their ethics,
A> some do not. Just like white hats. 

A> There is only one problem with hiring ex-hackers as security professionals:
A> most of them have no clue in creating reasonable treat models, must of them are
A> just good in finding *vulnerabilities* and fixing those, but creating secure design
A> may be beyond their abilities.



A> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:29:38PM -0400, Mike Smith wrote:
> > <de-lurk>
> > The man committed crimes, was caught and convicted, and served the time awarded
> > by various governments.  From what I read, he has been clean for a quarter of a
> > century.  Indeed, he has helped police authorities fight criminal activities
> > such as he once engaged in.
> >
> > I guess the issue is how long does it take before one accepts that a convicted
> > person has truly reformed?  If the answer is "forever," then what is the point
> > in ever letting him out of jail?  Can criminals never acknowledge the error of
> > their ways and return to civilized society?  Can we not learn anything from
> > them?
> >
> > Here in Canada, for instance, a convicted person must serve his full sentence
> > and remain "of good conduct" for three to five years (depending on the offence)
> > afterwards, and then he can apply for a pardon, which sets aside his criminal
> > record (but does not destroy it; by the way, some offences, notably violent
> > ones, are not pardonable).  The thinking is that the person has "paid his debt
> > to society" and is entitled to a relatively unfettered attempt to contribute
> > once again.
> >
> > This is _not_ to suggest that I approve of hiring self-proclaimed ex-hackers as
> > security professionals.  By and large, they have not "paid their debts."  There
> > is no evidence or behaviour that would lead you to conclude they have reformed
> > their ways.
> >
> > Disclosure: I'm planning on attending the CSI conference (if upper management
> > approves the travel request).
> >
> > <lurk>
> >
> >  --- Paul D. Robertson wrote: 
> > > This year's CSI conference features the self-advancing "Catch me if you
> > > can" guy, Frank Abagnale as a keynote speaker.
> > >
> > > Because of this, one of my co-workers, Bill Murray, has withdrawn from
> > > speaking, as has Howard Schmidt with the "people who commit felonies
> > > shouldn't profit from the results of their nefarious deeds, let
> > > alone be sponsored by the security industry" train of thought[1].
> > >
> > > Bill's done the same before with a different organization advancing Kevin
> > > Mitnick in the past.  Personally, I think it's fantastic that there are
> > > still people in this world who are willing to take the moral high ground,
> > > and hold it.
> > >
> > > <snip>
> >
> > =====
> > Mike Smith
> >
> > "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
> >                         H.G. Wells - The Outline of History
> >
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<===========End of original message text===========



-- 
Best regards,
 Adam                            mailto:carpathin.wolf () gmx net

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