Re: A fun smackdown...

[Chuck Swiger <chuck () codefab com>]

On May 20, 2005, at 9:57 PM, Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
> Chuck Swiger wrote:
> > You are disagreeing with a design principle from the RFC's which 
> > discusses how to create robust software protocols.
>
> The RFCs often used to contain the phrase "this RFC does not address
> security."    Is that one of those great design principles the IETF 
> uses
> to create "robust software protocols"??

Sometimes, yes.  I'd rather see an explicit statement that says, "this 
is not a secure protocol", then use something which pretends to be 
secure, yet is not.

The older RFCs-- before 2000 or so-- were a lot more concerned with 
defining standards for interoperability than for security.  Newer RFC's 
tend to show a lot more concern for security.

> The RFC process creates interoperable *CRAP*.

Let's accept this as true for a moment.  Can you point to something 
better?

What about the ISO model, the X.400 & X.500 schemas, and ASN.1?
How well has BER, SNMP, SSL certs, and all of that done in practice for 
security?

Or how about the security vendors, who break standards to create 
proprietary, non-interoperable crap?  What's the current status of 
VRRP?  Is that an open standard, free for all to use, or is it 
encumbered?

> [ ... ]
> The RFCs are written by well-intentioned amateurs who never gave
> a rat's a&& for security, and the resulting Internet reflects it.

Not always.  There are people, even on this list, who could learn 
something from:

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2196.txt

   As an aside, building a "home grown" firewall requires a significant
   amount of skill and knowledge of TCP/IP.  It should not be trivially
   attempted because a perceived sense of security is worse in the long
   run than knowing that there is no security.  As with all security
   measures, it is important to decide on the threat, the value of the
   assets to be protected, and the costs to implement security.

Give that RFC a fair read, Marcus, and then see whether you still agree 
with your own generalization above.

--
-Chuck

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