Re: IPS in the Enterprise UTM Firewall testing results

["Ravi Chunduru" <ravi.is.chunduru () gmail com>]

Am I right in saying that block rate is low, but detection rate could
be lot higher. Are there any results on vulnerability detection rate
by these devices? I don't find this kind of result in the report. I
think another important factor in IPS is its false positive rate. Was
this testing also done? I don't seem to find results on this item in
the report.

Any comments on low performance of these devices.  It appears that
some of these devices are suitable for Enterprise Edge and are not
suitable for Enterprise-Core.

Ravi




On Dec 3, 2007 8:30 AM, Joel M Snyder <Joel.Snyder () opus1 com> wrote:
> I wouldn't necessarily say that catch rates are disappointing.  With IPS, it is
> very difficult to say what a good catch rate is.  Clearly, the ISS box "caught"
> more things than all of the other guys, but remember that the purpose of an IPS
> is to handle that narrow window between problem and patch--if you are relying on
> your IPS to block SQL Slammer, you've got some major architectural conceptual
> errors in your network that IPS won't help you with.
>
> I was pretty careful NOT to make any pejorative statement about the catch rate
> (except to say that relative catch rates give you relatively 'better' IPS), and
> I think that we ALL have to be careful in that area.
>
> I don't believe that anyone can credibly put a stake in the ground and say "an
> IPS must block these specific attacks" and then defend that position.  This is
> very different from, say, A/V or firewall, where there's a much clearer
> black-and-white line about what you need to support.
>
> Clearly there are some pathological environments where an IPS somehow
> substitutes for a firewall and where 6000 signatures is the "right number" to
> have.  But in enterprise deployments, it's very unclear to me how to adequately
> test an IPS for coverage.  I can do performance easily enough, but checking
> coverage (which is what the Mu-4000 does) just seems quite dangerous.
>
> Anyway, I think that it is useful to see the comparative values on IPS catch
> rate, but I would not go so far as to say that having an average catch rate in
> the 30% to 40% range is "bad" or "good" for these products.
>
> I want to distance any testing we do from the bogus premise that you see in
> tests like the ICSA certifications where they pick specific attacks and say that
> you must block these.  To me, that's not supportable.  It may be in an IDS, but
> IDS and IPS are entirely different beasts, and we were testing these products as
> IPSes, not IDSes.
>
> jms
>
>
>
>
> Ravi Chunduru wrote:
> > this is really a great report and i am sure lot of effort has gone
> > into this. catch rates and perforamance is really caught my eye.
> >
> > Catch rates are really disappointing across the board except for ISS.
> > i do understand that client attack detection is new, but even the
> > server side catch rates are awfully low. i understand that these are
> > expensive boxes. i did not see any vendor responses  on low catch rate
> > and performace.
> >
> > is this due to technology limitation or is it that devices tested are
> > not up to mark?
> >
> > Ravi
> >
> > On 14 Nov 2007 15:28:18 -0000, jms () opus1 com <jms () opus1 com> wrote:
> > > After months and months and months in the lab, a huge UTM test I did for Network World is now available (for free, 
> > > folks, for free) on their web site.  I apologize in advance if you have to click 800 times to read the whole 
> > > 19,000 words, but here goes:
> > >
> > >
> > > Main story starting point:
> > >
> > > http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2007/111207-utm-firewall-test.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Just the discussion of IPS in the UTM firewall/enterprise space:
> > >
> > > http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2007/111207-utm-firewall-test-ips.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Chart on catch rates based on Mu-4000 testing:
> > >
> > > http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2007/111207ips.html
> > >
> > >
> > > If you're not sure that enterprise should even be running IPS in their firewalls, you can click on the link below 
> > > for a header page which has further links with some discussion on the pros and cons of that issue:
> > >
> > > http://www.networkworld.com/buyersguides/guide.php?cat=865480
> > >
> > >
> > > Enjoy or not, as you see fit.
> > >
> > >
> > > jms
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Joel M Snyder, 1404 East Lind Road, Tucson, AZ, 85719
> > >
> > > Senior Partner, Opus One       Phone: +1 520 324 0494
> > >
> > > jms () Opus1 COM                http://www.opus1.com/jms
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Test Your IDS
> > >
> > > Is your IDS deployed correctly?
> > > Find out quickly and easily by testing it
> > > with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT.
> > > Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=intro_sfw
> > > to learn more.
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
>
> Joel M Snyder, 1404 East Lind Road, Tucson, AZ, 85719
> Senior Partner, Opus One       Phone: +1 520 324 0494
> jms () Opus1 COM                http://www.opus1.com/jms

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