IDS mailing list archives
Re: Bittorrent - utorrent
From: Robert Schwartz <robert.schwartz () ucdmc ucdavis edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:04:05 -0700
There's more here then just marketroid-speak, but less here then perfect transparent visibility into your SSL traffic. 2 ways and 2 different market segments. For outbound traffic inspection they MITM all connections, terminate your SSL connection at the border and proxy your data within another SSL conversation (which would send a browser warning to the client, which can be addressed via Microsoft Active Directory GPO's to turn off all certificate warnings). For incoming traffic, you load the SSL Key (not the certificate, THE KEY) of all the webservers you want to inspect on your network into the de-SSLerizer, which can then send plain-text HTTP streams to your IDS. Nothing can "on the fly" brute force SSL at this time. And when it can, we will user bigger keys. How do you tell if your web servers are being hacked if the hacker just has to use SSL to circumvent your IPS/IDS? With the ones that you load your web server keys into, you can then use an IDS with confidence that all HTTP headers and data are being deeply inspected. So there's a durn fine story here for network security regarding incoming SSL traffic, however for outbound traffic, the cost of inspection is that your end-user's blindly click "accept" at every certificate warning they see. IMHO that tradeoff isn't justifiable under any risk assessment framework I've found useful. Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and no one else's. My opinions are neither a tacit nor an overt endorsement from my employer on any subject . No warranty is expressed or implied. Hari Sekhon <hpsekhon@googlem ail.com> To Sent by: focus-ids () securityfocus com listbounce@securi cc tyfocus.com Subject Re: Bittorrent - utorrent 03/13/2007 10:20 AM does anyone understand how these products can inspect SSL? Perhaps I could understand if it was just the bitorrent encypted traffic... but surely SSL is designed to be encrypted end to end? You'd have to intercept the certificate and replace it, prompting a warning to the user. The only other way I can think of would be something like a cryptographic weakness in SSL or brute forcing it somehow, but this seems like it would take a ridiculous amount of computing power and just doesn't seem possible... If SSL is truely decryptable on the fly in real-time in this way (or even just from packet captures after some effort) it would effectively render all e-business too dangerous to ever do again. I'd never buy another book from Amazon ever again! Anyone care to explain how these products are supposed to work and if they really can decrypt SSL or if this is marketing speech for noticing encrypted patterns which isn't the same thing? -h Hari Sekhon Kevin Overcash wrote:
Breach Security has a product called BreachView SSL that passively
decrypts SSL traffic for an IDS without terminating the SSL session. The product comes as either a software plug-in or an appliance.
http://www.breach.com/products_breachviewssl.aspI can't (although
personally I haven't encrypted bitorrent so
ko -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of Panayiotis Psihoyios
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:01 AM To: 'Ove Dalgård Hansen'; focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: Bittorrent - utorrent Since it is going through SSL (and no IDS can look into SSL), you have
two
options: Plan A: Deny SSL traffic, but that usually this is not possible, Plan B: Let your users out through a proxy server, which will identify non-browser traffic using http/s header inspection. Configure your
firewall
to permit HTTP/S out only from your proxy and not your clients. Regards, Panayiotis -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On
Behalf Of Ove Dalgard Hansen Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:38 PM To: focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: Bittorrent - utorrent Hello Everyone, I am in a bit of trouble, On a network where i am configuring IDS - using ASA5510 + SSM module, we
try
to deny access to Bittorrent downloads - it consumes quite a bit of
bandwith
and is not allowed by the company's policy. We try to filter bittorrent which succedes - but the utorrent changes protocol and goes by the SSL port 443 and thereby circumvent the IDS,
since
its not possible to see the encrypted traffic. Does anyone out there have a good idea of how i am to solve the issue? Best Regards Ove Hansen IT-Quality A/S Banemarksvej 50F Denmark - 2605 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to
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tro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to
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to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to
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to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=intro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.coresecurity.com/index.php5?module=Form&action=impact&campaign=intro_sfw to learn more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- RE: Bittorrent - utorrent, (continued)
- RE: Bittorrent - utorrent Panayiotis Psihoyios (Mar 09)
- RE: Bittorrent - utorrent dpat (Mar 12)
- RE: Bittorrent - utorrent Kevin Overcash (Mar 12)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Fredrik Nordgren (Mar 13)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Hari Sekhon (Mar 14)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Stefano Zanero (Mar 14)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Hari Sekhon (Mar 13)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Tremaine Lea (Mar 14)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent jhori (Mar 14)
- Message not available
- Fwd: Bittorrent - utorrent kevin fielder (Mar 14)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Robert Schwartz (Mar 14)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Tremaine Lea (Mar 14)
- Re: WAS: Bittorrent - utorrent NOW: Certificate Talk Randal T. Rioux (Mar 19)
- Re: WAS: Bittorrent - utorrent NOW: Certificate Talk Tremaine Lea (Mar 19)
- RE: WAS: Bittorrent - utorrent NOW: Certificate Talk Erick Jensen (Mar 20)
- RE: Bittorrent - utorrent Panayiotis Psihoyios (Mar 09)
- Re: Bittorrent - utorrent Roland Turner (Security Focus) (Mar 14)