Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE: Re: Please Vote Today
From: "Benjamin Meade" <ben () lanwest com au>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:45:28 +0800
Well said. Benjamin Meade System Administrator LanWest Pty Ltd -----Original Message----- From: full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com [mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] On Behalf Of aliver () xexil com Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2003 3:26 PM To: full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: [Full-disclosure] Re: Please Vote Today
I've created a poll to address this "Morning Wood" issue.
I'm surprised. I expected more from you, Len. Did you really create this list with the belief that a few immature or unsavory individuals wouldn't attempt to grandstand and act the fool next to legitimate researchers? If you didn't consider this possibility then you are naive'. If you did consider it, then make no mistake, you are now vacillating on the tenability of an unmoderated security list.
Quite a few people have been contacting us in regards to his behaviour
on
the list and needless to say no small number of people have left the
list
because of recent activity.
These are people who are too ignorant or impatient to use procmail or their client's built in mail filtering (and heaven forbid they actually just _skip_ the message). I say, good riddance to bad rubbish. Even in the remote chance that they did actually have something to contribute, then they would have eventually left anyway due to their prudish nature. This list so far has been no-holds-barred, and there may well be a few smart people who simply can't stand a pottymouth ... *shrug* not much to be done about that.
http://www.netsys.com/cgi-bin/poll?pn=7
Did you even take into consideration that the results of your poll will be totally inaccurate since all that's required to vote is a new IP? I have around 300 hosts with separate IP's at my disposal (legitimately) and if I had a mind, I could easily alter the results. So also, could any number of other subscribers.
We'll wait a week before taking any action.
Hopefully, you'll realize what a silly idea this was and stick to your guns. Either support unmoderated full-disclosure or shut the list down, get out of the way, and let someone with more fortitude make a more serious effort.
Note: We can moderate individuals who are problematic but we are loath
to
actually remove someone from the list because there is always hope for improvement.
Personally, I'd rather someone be unsubscribed rather than directly censor messages. If someone (like a few of the hush.com idiots) were trying to DoS the list, then you unsubscribe them. They are not trying to express themselves or discuss security, but rather intentionally attempting destroy the list with a blatant attack. Morning Wood is just an immature kid who, for some reason, wants to participate in a discussion about 'security' and 'hacking' even though he doesn't have anything of substance to say. I for one either laugh at or delete the mail I get from him. If it really bothered me, I'd have procmail filter it out as I do with more malicious posters. What puzzles me is that after all the list has been through, you are only taking a real stand on this issue now? Is it due to the fact that people are leaving the list? If so, that's pretty weak. The slew of "oh yeah I'm leaving too, yeah." shouldn't phase you. I encourage you to keep the list unmoderated even if it means you and I are the last goddamn people to unsubscribe. Don't knuckle under just because a few lemmings went and unsubscribed after a public display of their lack of mail filtering skills.
I am optimistic that if people can be made aware of their anti-social behaviour they often change for the better. We're all human and we've
all
got our faults!
Don't be so optimistic, in this case. Some people will continue to make asses out of themselves and wrack the nerves of others who allow themselves to be bothered. Moving forward, I think there is hope that you will realize that moderating or unsubscribing folks from this list because their posts are immature, inflammatory, or for any reason other than they are DoS'ing would mean that this is nothing more than a lower quality Bugtraq. Moderation is moderation, regardless of how strict or liberal the moderator is, the posts are still subject to their discretion. The whole reason I'm here is that the list is open to all without fear of authoritarian moderation. I won't abide moderation here. I'm already subscribed to Bugtraq. So please, don't get weak in the knees on me now. aliver _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: Please Vote Today, (continued)
- Re: Please Vote Today Philip Stortz (Jun 12)
- Re: Please Vote Today morning_wood (Jun 12)
- Re: Please Vote Today martin f krafft (Jun 12)
- Re: Re: Please Vote Today morning_wood (Jun 12)
- Re: Re: Please Vote Today Export (Jun 12)
- Re: Re: Please Vote Today eip (Jun 12)
- Re: Re: Please Vote Today Rui Miguel Seabra (Jun 12)
- RE: Please Vote Today Mike Fratto (Jun 12)
- How to run a mailing list (Was: Please Vote Today Andrew J Caines (Jun 12)
- Re: Please Vote Today Philip Stortz (Jun 12)
- Re: Please Vote Today aliver (Jun 12)
- RE: Re: Please Vote Today Benjamin Meade (Jun 12)
- RE: Please Vote Today David Vincent (Jun 12)
- RE: Please Vote Today Raj Mathur (Jun 12)
- RE: Re: Please Vote Today Sam Pointer (Jun 12)
- RE: Re: Please Vote Today Nick FitzGerald (Jun 12)
- RE: Please Vote Today Myers, Marvin (Jun 12)