Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006
From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" <wilder_jeff () msn com>
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 09:55:02 -0700
Not to validate the cissp... but try to get a good security job with out it. I do not have to know how to forge the steel, machine the metal, build an engine in order to drive a car. I understand the the inner workings of an application how how it interacts with the differnent layes...
There are the eliete individuals... the top 5-10% that can actually write their own exploit code, but in the industrial industy where we are not creating our own applications, what good is it?
I'm not going to say if the cissp was good or bad.. but I ca tell you, after all the studies and time in prep, I understand the business side of security. If you dont understand that side of it.. you can hack all you want from a dark room in the basement, but your never going to be able to make a bigger impact in the industry as a whole. Its money that makes the world move.
I cannot say that my skill at preventing a hack was any better after the cissp then before it... but because of the certification, it placed me into a position where I can learn far more then sitting in my dungeon at home.
-Jeff Wilder CISSP,CCE,C/EH -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/CM/CS/O d- s:+ a C+++ UH++ P L++ E- w-- N+++ o-- K- w O- M-- V-- PS+ PE- Y++ PGP++ t+ 5- X-- R* tv b++ DI++ D++ G e* h--- r- y+++* ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
From: "sk" <sk () groundzero-security com> To: <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 03:45:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0Received: from lists.grok.org.uk ([195.184.125.51]) by MC8-F37.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 00:59:24 -0800 Received: from lists.grok.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])by lists.grok.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322AE27D;Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:57:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hosting.g-0.org (hosting.GroundZero-Security.com[217.172.172.12])by lists.grok.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8370DD8for <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk>;Mon, 5 Dec 2005 02:46:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nuclearwinter (p5499EDB0.dip.t-dialin.net [84.153.237.176])by hosting.g-0.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with SMTP idjB52kT8u006885for <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk>; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 03:46:42 +0100X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jG54YUSJSmbzlfPWdFewmiFRINzDDRhcKc= X-Original-To: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk Delivered-To: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk References: <6450e99d0512041801p4adf24bclb8deaeefd203fa9a () mail gmail com> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:57:42 +0000 X-BeenThere: full-disclosure () lists grok org uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: listList-Id: An unmoderated mailing list for the discussion of security issues<full-disclosure.lists.grok.org.uk> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.grok.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/full-disclosure>, <mailto:full-disclosure-request () lists grok org uk?subject=unsubscribe>List-Archive: <http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure> List-Post: <mailto:full-disclosure () lists grok org uk> List-Help: <mailto:full-disclosure-request () lists grok org uk?subject=help>List-Subscribe: <https://lists.grok.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/full-disclosure>, <mailto:full-disclosure-request () lists grok org uk?subject=subscribe>Errors-To: full-disclosure-bounces () lists grok org uk Return-Path: full-disclosure-bounces () lists grok org ukX-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2005 08:59:24.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[30A82760:01C5F97A]CISSP is bullshit. as eeye said 99% of the security consultants do their pen-tests with automated tools which is pathetic in my opinion. if you cant write exploits, you are no professional, more like a steam blower. how can someone be professional when he doesnt even understand how an exploit works in deep? what if there are custom scripts or exotic daemons installed? without beeing able to audit code and understand how certain bugs are beeing exploited, how can someone think he got enough clue to do a professional security audit? its just a rip off of the customers as simple as that. or would you pay someone to run an automated tool against your host, sit back and wait till a nice pdf statistic is generated so he got something to present to you? of course you wouldnt. in the 90s the people still had to learn ontheir own and all the mainstream hackers who speak at your conventions didntlearn their knowledge from stupid class rooms. everyone who thinks hes a security professional or even a hacker after he made some certs, is just living in a dream world. then again the media plays well with the steam blowers so they can make a nice living.. sorry i just had to say that since its going on my nerves how all these people suddenly think their stupid certs make em special, but then if it comes to knowledge everyone is cluless... -sk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan ." <ivanhec () gmail com> To: <full-disclosure () lists grok org uk> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 3:01 AM Subject: [Full-disclosure] IT security professionals in demand in 2006 > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;923889191;fp;16;fpid;0 > _______________________________________________ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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Current thread:
- IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Ivan . (Dec 04)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 sk (Dec 05)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 wilder_jeff Wilder (Dec 05)
- RE: [lists] Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Curt Purdy (Dec 05)
- Re: [lists] Re: IT security professionals in demandin 2006 Jason Coombs (Dec 05)
- Re: [lists] Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 InfoSecBOFH (Dec 06)
- Re: [lists] Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Andre Ludwig (Dec 06)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 wilder_jeff Wilder (Dec 05)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 sk (Dec 05)
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- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 sk (Dec 05)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Andre Ludwig (Dec 05)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 J.A. Terranson (Dec 05)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Scott Renna (Dec 06)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 Buford T. Pisser (Dec 06)
- Re: IT security professionals in demand in 2006 wilder_jeff Wilder (Dec 06)