Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists () tx rr com>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:17:52 -0600
--On November 4, 2009 8:48:41 PM -0600 Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:42:37 CST, Paul Schmehl said:You and millions of others love to conflate those issues with warrantless surveillance of US citizens for the purpose of obtaining evidence in a criminal investigation and then scream bloody murder about warrantless surveillance and intrusions of our rights.OK, so in your opinion we should sit back and accept the legal theory that "I'm the President, and as Commander in Chief I can give orders contrary to the usual 4th Amendment restrictions" (note carefully that there was *NOT* an actual formal declaration of war made - Congress merely authorized the use of force. Many constitutional law experts seem to think this makes a difference).
The President doesn't need a declaration of war to conduct surveillance on the enemies of the US, and foreign agents do not have any 4th amendment rights. Only US citizens do. Your argument is akin to the stupidity that insists that terrorists held in Guantanmo Bay have a Constitutional right to counsel, a day in court, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum. The rest of the world laughs at such idiocy (not to mention never practices it.)
So it is OK if as President, he decides to suspend habeus corpus?
Foreign agents don't have Constitutional rights. (Maybe if I repeat this enough it will sink in.)
If it's *not* OK, how do you intend to complain once your corpus can't be habeased any more? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" -- Thomas Jefferson.
Eternal vigilance includes voting, taking the time to understand the issues and your rights, and having enough good sense to realize that US Constitutional rights do not apply to non-citizens. Unless you can produce a single example of a US citizen who was charged with, indicted and convicted of a crime based upon so-called illegal surveillance, your argument is nothing more than hyperventilation over boogy men. Have the black helicopters come yet?
In other words, the time to raise a fuss is *before* they go down the slippery slope, not once they're 3/4 of the way down and in an uncontrolled slide. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis, 1935
Well Marxism has come to America and millions are marching willingly into slavery. The very idea that the government can force you to buy insurance is so anathema to the Constitution that it's stunning anyone would consider it, much less listen to Congresspersons stutter and stammer when asked where in the Constitution the government is given the right to force US citizens to buy anything. Sinclair Lewis would approve, of course, because he too was a Marxist. Marxists *want* people to be enslaved to the government.
And that's why we raise a fuss. You may wish to read Naomi Wolf's "Fascist America in 10 easy steps": http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment And that's why we raise a fuss.
Mostly "we" raise a fuss because "we" are profoundly ignorant. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ****************************************** WARNING: Check the headers before replying _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street, (continued)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Byron Sonne (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street mrx (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Ivan . (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Gary E. Miller (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 04)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 05)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Ivan . (Nov 05)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 06)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Gary E. Miller (Nov 06)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 06)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Rohit Patnaik (Nov 06)
- Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street Paul Schmehl (Nov 06)