Re: Re: Phishing Defense a Key Factor in eBay-VeriSign Deal

["Mark P. Fister" <mark () fister org>]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 01:49:57PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Neal Krawetz:
>
> > And I'm sure there are more issues...
>
> My main concern is that Ebay generates quite a fair share of disputes,
> and in general, they are unwilling to deal with dispute resolution.

1st: I'm an authority (of sorts) on eBay and PayPal: I'm an engineer
who has worked for not only both of those companies but also Half.com,
another wholly-owned subsidiary.  I've been with the company for over
6 years.

2nd: your statement is not a bit true.

eBay does provide this!  It's called ODR (Online Dispute Resolution).
eBay provides this system so that buyers and sellers can efficiently go
through a set process to resolve disputes.  Likewise, PayPal buyers and
sellers can create dispute cases, and buyers can be refunded by PayPal
customer support.  For example, if the seller is qualified for "PayPal
Buyer Protection", then the buyer is 100% protected up to USD $1000 (I'm
not sure what the amount is for other countries).  If the seller is not
qualified for "PayPal Buyer Protection", then use the seller's feedback
profile wisely, taking a look at all comments... :)


> Instead, their customers flood the justice system with criminal
> complaints.  In this sense, local taxpayers subsidize Ebay, which is
> unacceptable.

I think you haven't read the Terms and Conditions.

My 3rd point is this: In the Terms and Conditions of using the eBay web
site, I believe that things are spelled out very clearly.

Go read them, if you don't believe me.  In layman's terms, "eBay is not
a court of law.  Don't expect eBay employees to act as lawmakers, judges,
or policemen.  Instead, think of eBay as the Better Business Bureau (for
non-US folks: the BBB is an organization of each municipality that tracks
the reputation of local businesses by accepting consumer complaints and
accepting inquiries on business status, free of charge)."

4th: eBay does as much as possible.

eBay provides buyers and sellers the tools and information they need to
resolve issues before giving up and asking the pair to take their dispute
to court.  You don't blame the parking lot owners or the Flea Market
organizer if one of the 1000's of tiny shop owners fleeces you!  You do,
however, expect the Flea Market organizer to ban that fraudster (once
there is proof, of course, rather than just hearsay), and eBay does
just that!  Instead, you call the police (taxpayers' money? again?), and
quick, before the perpetrator gets away!

5th: Let's take a step back here.

eBay spends millions upon millions of US dollars every year in the area of
Trust and Safety.  eBay does its thing.  Worldwide, citizens spend massive
amounts of money every year in Trust and Safety.  From the bazaar haggling
over chickens to the bizarre haggling on eBay, there's a distinct role for
the marketplace and an even more distinct role for law enforcement.

-- 
Mark P. Fister
Formerly:  User/Security Software Engineer, eBay
Currently: PayPal/eBay Operations Support Software Engineer
Skype:     callme://FisterDotOrg
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