Re: [privacy] U.S. Says Wiretapping Helped Foil Terror Plot in Germany

["Joel R. Helgeson" <joel () helgeson com>]

The upset is with the fact that the NSA monitors call traffic that could be
routed through the United States, such as a call from Canada to the UK(using
undersea cables), without a warrant. The second is that an Al Qaeda
terrorist is in Germany, talking to a terrorist in the USA, planning an
attack. Because the conversation involves an individual inside the USA, does
the NSA need a court order?

So, I could see that this story is accurate, that a call from a terror
supporter communicates with a sleeper cell in the USA - leading to the
discovery of a plot.

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dittrich [mailto:dittrich () u washington edu] 
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:09 PM
To: Paul Ferguson
Cc: privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
Subject: Re: [privacy] U.S. Says Wiretapping Helped Foil Terror Plot in
Germany

Paul Ferguson wrote:
> Via The Boston Globe (Reuters).
>
> [snip]
>
> Information gained through a U.S. wiretapping program much criticized by
> civil liberties advocates helped authorities foil attack plots last week
in
> Germany and Denmark, top U.S. intelligence officials said on Monday.


That does not logically follow.  These are two separate concepts.
Someone is trying to conflate the two, as I'm sure they understand
the details (as they are so closely held) or else the reporter
doesn't understand and is writing a slanted story (accidentally,
or on purpose: either way it means they're not doing good
independent journalism.)

> U.S. Director of Intelligence Michael McConnell said the surveillance
> program had made "significant contributions" in discovering and breaking
up
> a suspected plot in Germany to bomb American installations. He cited them
> as a reason that the U.S. Congress should reject attempts to restrict it.

Uh... How do German, or Dutch, citizens (which the NSA could already
legally wiretap, without even needing to go to the FISA court)
get us to "warrantless domestic wiretapping?" Or are they confirming
that these suspects were talking with people in the U.S., and
how does using that information in the legal process in Germany
prevent ANY discussion (even with Congress) here in the U.S.?

> "It allowed us to see and understand all the connections ... to al Qaeda,"
> McConnell told a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

Yeah, so? It lead to a legal effort, prosecuted by German law
enforcement.  If anything, the argument above about the program
being successful should support the idea of getting warrants.

-- 
Dave Dittrich                          Information Assurance Researcher,
dittrich () u washington edu              The iSchool
http://staff.washington.edu/dittrich   University of Washington

PGP key      http://staff.washington.edu/dittrich/pgpkey.txt
Fingerprint  FE97 0C57 0843 F3EB 49A1  0CD0 8E0C D0BE C838 CCB5
_______________________________________________
privacy mailing list
privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy

_______________________________________________
privacy mailing list
privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy