Re: [privacy] U.S. 'State Secrets' Case May Get Airing

["Dennis Henderson" <hendomatic () gmail com>]

On 10/10/07, Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:18:46 CDT, Dennis Henderson said:
>
> > Maybe the ACLU should change their name to STCLU Suspected terrorists
> Civil
> > Liberties Union
> >
> > They certainly aren't working for Americans much these days.
>
> That's because the ACLU understands the concept of "slippery slope" better
> than
> the people who's rights they are defending.
>
> OK, let's say you've decided that "suspected terrorists" don't have the
> same
> civil rights as others - what about the innocent ones?  Don't all of them
> have
> their right to a fair trial and so forth?  And if terrorists don't
> qualify, what
> *other* classes of unpopular criminals don't deserve a fair trial? Child
> pornographers?  Doctors that perform abortions? Tax cheats?  and so on....


I'll try to pull this back to point. Your flair for demagoguery is superior.


The key word Valdis, is American....  The ACLU, in my opinion has
transformed itself from an organization that defended the rights of
Americans against  unjust laws, discrimination and government into an
"American Organization" that now takes up most prominently  positions
of non-citizens, legal or not. Its homepage pretty much points that out
front and center. One cannot easily find a mission statement on their site
that draws the boundaries in which they play.

I would certainly want to have the ACLU on my side if I felt like some
entity was denying me my civil rights or liberties, but like the mission
statement of the ACLU clearly says, they are non profit and dont have time
to deal with all issues, they focus on the ones that potentially have the
most impact.  Whatever context "impact" has is anyone's guess.

To your other points.

<Under American Law>

The legal difference between "suspected" and "innocent" American citizens is
zero. The suspect might find himself posting bail, but the legal status of a
suspect and an innocent is the same.

Yes, ALL Americans have the right to a fair trial, suspect or not. Under the
eyes of the law, there are not *classes* of American citizens. Nice try...

An American citizen, who is a suspected terrorist, has the same rights as an
American citizen not suspected of Terrorism unless there are special wartime
laws in place. Past administrations have suspended habeas corpus in times of
war. I expect it to happen again some time.


A Non-American-Citizen, suspected terrorist does NOT have the same rights as
an American citizen. This is especially true when the action the suspected
terrorist allegedly suffered was not inside the US. Thats why the ACLU had
brought forth the civil action against the US on behalf of the
non-American-person.



Regardless of what you think, the guy(whos interest was represented by the
ACLU) had his day(s) in court. He lost.




I should have stated this earlier as it may have been more clear. I think
the German government should be leading the charge to gain justice on his
behalf, not the ACLU. He is certainly due redress for his suffering, as so
alleged.

War is hell. People make mistakes, people get hurt and die. The guy is lucky
he was kidnapped by the CIA and not Al Queda. He's still alive to talk about
it.

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