Why the clipper chip interest the intelligence community [ this is a bit confusing in structure but

[David Farber <farber () central cis upenn edu>]

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 16:41:56 EST
From: Sam Sternberg <SAMSAM () VM1 YorkU CA>
To: Multiple recipients of list <can-freenet () cunews carleton ca>
Subject:      Re: EFF Wants You (to add your voice to the crypto fight!)


Mr. Pearce - regarding who does or does not want to read your mail.
You may find the following quote Instructive.


from TALKING POINTS FOR THE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE *


"Abandon all thoughts of industrial espionage. The brightest minds
from your community met at harvard for the Intelligence Policy Seminar in
December 1991( Greg Treverton was one of their instructor) and
concluded that a) there is no such thing as an American corporation;
b) if provided with industrial espionage corpoation would tend to reduce
their investment in research & development; and c) the best thing you
could do for businesses and individuals in the U.S. is to invest heavily
in open sources."


 It would seem that industrial espionage has been on the minds of the
intelligence community for a while. Despite the above plea to
abandon it, some feel that the current clipper chip proposal is essentially
the means to that end.


Sam Sternberg  <samsam () vm1 yorku ca>


*
page 179 - Proceedings Volume 1
           SECOND INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM:
"NATIONAL SECURITY & NATIONAL COMPETITIVENESS:
OPEN SOURCE SOLUTIONS


no author is shown for the article.
======================================================================== 70
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 12:24:35 EST
From: Sam Sternberg <SAMSAM () VM1 YorkU CA>
To: Multiple recipients of list <can-freenet () cunews carleton ca>
Subject:      Re: Networks & Community - Feb 8 1994


On Thu, 10 Feb 94 11:03:09 EST Andrew Stephens said:
> I was fortunate enough to spend two hours with Marc Rotenburg of CPSR a
> week ago while he talked to a group of us about the Clipper Chip and the
> US administrations plans to implement it as a government standard.  He
> mentioned that major suppliers to the government in the U.S. are already
> being instructed to incorporate it into their designs.
>
> This raises several questions (particularly in the context of Canada):
>
> 1) Will Canadian suppliers be required to adopt this standard in bids to
> the US gov't? Sort of goes without saying I'd think.
            YES - its unavoidable for Northern Tel - but they don't
            have to put it in eveything they sell - If they do they will
            loose significant market share to foriegn firms in Other markets.


> 2) Will DND in Canada be required to adopt Clipper in order to collaborate
> with the US in joint military activities?
                     Unless there is a public outcry they will do it
                     even if not required to.
> 3)  If US firms, Cdn firms and government institutions all adopt Clipper,
> is there any possibility that it will not become a de facto standard?
>           What Canadian firm wants all its mail to be opened by the
           boys NSA. And they will open it. The keys are being kept
           NIST and By TREASURY
NIST is the "public" arm of NSA - it needs a cover and NIST supplies it.
TREASURY is home of INTERPOL in the U.S. - it to has long standing
direct involvement in the intelligence community. Your keys are about
as safe with those boys as the would be with Al Capone.


> 4) We know that the Clipper encryption keys will be bisected and kept in
> two separate locations in Washington -- probably the US Treasury and some
> other government office (Dept of Commerce?). So that when any electronic
> communication that is "Clipperized" is used the encryption keys will
> automatically be forwarded for storage in Washington.  Is that where
> Canadian encryption keys (and other foreign countries using Clipper) will
> be stored?
                    If they aren't kept their they will be kept in
                    Canadian equivalents.
 5) How long will it take before some fifteen year old geek sitting alone
> in his/her bedroom surrounded by half empty chip bags *cracks* Clipper?
> What assurances do any of its users have that it will be kept evergreen?
>               I have friends who tell me this scheme allows for
                automatic cracking with the linkage of those machines to
                machines with other equipment. So don't worry about some
                kid- worry about some adults.
> Having said all this, I am a neophyte in the privacy biz.  There is a need
> to ensure privacy and there are many debates ongoing as to what the
> policy/policies should be. Perhaps if there is sufficient interest on this
> list I can convince one of our privacy people to join in.
>                  We definitly need some debate here too.
                    Sam Sternberg samsam () vm1 yorku ca