more on you can choose a paper ballot!!

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Einar Stefferud <stef () Thor nma com>
Date: October 31, 2004 4:42:41 PM EST
To: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Subject: Re: [IP] you can choose a paper ballot!!

Has everyone forgotten how easy it is to cancel a paper ballot and turn
it into an OVERVOTE for a given ballot choice?

Paper ballots have been used to commit fraud ever since the Australians
invented the so called secret ballot system based on paper.

All that is needed is for someone/anyone with access to overvote a 
ballot
by adding another X so that the ballot shows votes for two candidates 
for
the same office.  Essentially the same thing as punching out an extra 
CHAD
for the same voter choice.

All "overvotes" invalidate the overvoted choice.

Also, if the paper ballot is used to double-check a computer ballot, and
they are found to differ, how do you decide which one to honor?  Which 
ever
one you decide to honor night be the false record, and since you only 
have
two values to choose from, you cannot determine from the ballot copies 
which
one is what the voter voted?

In which case, you might as well only use only paper or only computer
records just because you never have enough valid information to 
determine
what the voter chose, without asking the voter, which is hard to do in
any case.  It takes at least 3 "copies" to reasonably determine what the
voter intended.

So, in these two cases, paper ballots do nothing to improve your 
prevention
of fraud.

If you use computer with paper for backup, you induce the same kind of 
mess
they had in Florida in 2000, with lots of people rummaging around in a 
pile
of paper.

So, the solution to fraud prevention lies somewhere else!

Get a Life!

Cheers...\Stef

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Bob Porter <bobporter () theideasgroup com>
> Date: October 31, 2004 1:56:44 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net
> Subject: you can choose a paper ballot!!
> Reply-To: bobporter () bobporter com
>
> California voters who are worried about
> electronic voting machines have an option to vote on paper this year.
> EFF worked very hard to get this from the Secretary of State and it
> was a major victory -- he was sued over it and won in federal court.
>
> Now we've learned that several of the larger counties (including
> Alameda, Santa Clara and Riverside) have instructed their pollworkers
> that they cannot inform voters about this choice unless the voter asks.
> They must steer voters to the insecure machines and can only offer 
> paper if a voter
> affirmatively chooses it.
>
> Needless to say, this is outrageous. To try to raise voter awareness
> of the choice (and hopefully shame the registrars of voters to change
> their minds), EFF has thrown together a website:
>
> www.paperorplastic2004.org
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> You are subscribed as steflist () thor nma com
> To manage your subscription, go to
> http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip
>
> Archives at: 
> http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/

-------------------------------------
You are subscribed as interesting-people () lists elistx com
To manage your subscription, go to
 http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip

Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/