more on "Google Print" and Ethics

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: NC Hanger / Windhaven <nhanger () windhaven com>
Date: August 16, 2005 3:43:04 AM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Cc: tim () oreilly com
Subject: Re: [IP] more on "Google Print" and Ethics


Tim,

I hate to point this out, really. Maybe you're not aware of it, but  
-- for instance -- my book from 2003, The First Year: Lupus, is up at  
Google Print with FULL PAGES showing. Not snippets. I don't know what  
pages you see at Google Print, but I see full book pages.

The pages show 5 at a time, in blocks (forwards, backwards) when you  
search on =any text= from the book at all. I tried this by searching  
on text randomly selected from the print edition. From page 53, I got  
the following hit at Google Print:

http://tinyurl.com/conf8

Note the search words I used at print.google.com in the full URL of  
the hit.

From page 103:
    http://tinyurl.com/dqbt3

Page 103's searchable text (see URL above for key words I used) is  
even better: it's a lengthy quote from another book -- one which I &  
my publisher had permission to use in the print edition for The First  
Year: Lupus, but which I highly doubt Google had permission to copy  
as well. Permissions within permissions -- gets interesting. That'll  
be for the lawyers to argue out.

I'm in publishing too, Tim. I've been a managing editor or production  
manager or plain old editor at mainstream publishers since 1983. I  
have rarely disagreed with anything you have to say on the subject of  
copyright or publishing, but here I think we differ quite a bit. As  
you can see from my .sig below, I'm nowadays the production manager  
for Jim Baen -- Baen Books. As you know, Baen's pretty unusual as far  
as rights and electronic use of books goes, but I suspect even they  
would wonder at why a company like Google would assume a publisher  
(or copyright holder) would want them to create & store electronic  
copies of their books without permission (opting in, not opting out  
-- which is questionably useful as a stopgap, legalities aside).  
Especially a company like Baen which already makes very good use of  
its electronic versions of its books and brings income from such  
directly to both itself as a publisher and the authors themselves.  
Why let Google make the money when the publisher already is? But  
perhaps because Baen is an exception to the rule, it doesn't figure  
highly in your discussion to hand.

The searchable version of my book, even 5 pages at a time, scares the  
crap out of me. The first thing I thought when I saw it was: Only a  
short time before someone figures out how to grab the whole thing,  
rather than 5 pages at a time, and just print the sucker out.

I'm already at 2nd printing, thank you, without Google's help via  
Google Print. I don't think making it searchable in this manner is  
going to bring me more buyers. What will bring more buyers is the  
need for a legitimately printed book available in the bookstores, not  
printed in someone's basement and sold on eBay for $2 plus shipping.  
Granted, my book isn't likely to be pirated. It's too damned boring.

I'd like to make it to 3rd printing. And I bet I will, even without  
Google Print. Royalties are a Good Thing.

We seem to have very different experience in the success rate of  
books, by the way. But again, perhaps Baen's sell-through rate is an  
exception to the rule and not applicable here. But then, the sell- 
through rate of my boring book was an exception too, I guess.  
Publishing is an odd world and exceptions do crop up in groupings  
sometimes.

Best,
--Nancy

~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~
Nancy C. Hanger, production manager
Baen Books (dist. by Simon & Schuster)
nhanger () windhaven com
603-483-0929 (prod. office) | 603-483-8022 (fax)
                        * www.baen.com *



On Aug 12, 2005, at 8:04 PM, David Farber wrote:


> If Google were offering the full Google Print style service, where  
> they were actually showing full pages from the copyrighted work,  
> I'd completely agree with you.  But they are scanning the books in  
> order to provide search, and showing only snippets that would  
> indeed be completely fair use if the catalog were created  
> manually.  It's less than is quoted in any book review.



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