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more on Coming to TV: ads about you -- 2
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:00:52 -0500
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [IP] Coming to TV: ads about you Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:06:34 -0500 From: Bob Frankston <Bob2-19-0501 () bobf frankston com> To: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com CC: 'Andrew Lippman' <lip () media mit edu> This reminds me of the example given in a talk a number of years ago about Excite@Home. The example given the talk was that GM would look up your car records in real time and post an ad for the right kind of new car if you seemed to be ready to buy a new one. My counter-example is the morning-after ad saying "you forget something last night ..." It's not surprise that we have a new generation of the "placement people" who used to want to make every element in a movie clickable so you could buy it. It's another flavor of going a step too far in a fantasy. I ask people "how do you get music to follow you around as you walk around the house" and there are all sorts of high tech solutions for sensing where you are and playing just the right music in the right room. I used to point out that carrying a walkman (now an iPod) is a far better solution. For ads we have some targeting by demographics of a show but why not let people choose what kind of ads they want. Sure, they won't necessarily make effective choices -- you have to hear what they mean not what they say. But that's no different from intuiting what ads they should see from naïve projections based on reading through their garbage or whatever source you use. The good news is that there is a point of diminishing returns on these approaches as you advertise only to those to whom you don't need to advertise or miss them altogether because your model determines your reality. In a sense this is like torture (or is a kind of) we have the naïve idea that there is so much value in these techniques that we dismiss the fears of the consequences and implications because of the pog (Pot-o-Gold) out there and the need to be very efficient with ad dollars even if the measure of efficiency is problematic. Ad dollars can be an effective source of indirect sponsorship but once they become overly targeted there is a risk of the mechanism becoming counter-productive. Or at least so I presume so -- Google does use a form of this in targeting their ads but they don't really dig deeper -- just use local context (or so I assume). Perhaps that's closer to sponsoring programs that appeal to an audience rather than personal snooping. As Andy points out -- why sneak around when you can just post car ads to people who may be interested. Asking for Cadillac ads may be too specific but general categories might actually work better allowing discovery within an area of interest. and I like the idea that maybe advertiser can "just ask". After all, people do look at catalogs by choice rather than being finagled into doing so unless you consider magazines as nothing other than catalog delivery mechanism. This reminds me of the example given in a talk a number of years ago about Excite@Home. The example given the talk was that GM would look up your car records in real time and post an ad for the right kind of new car if you seemed to be ready to buy a new one. My counter-example is the morning-after ad saying "you forget something last night ..." It's not surprise that we have a new generation of the "placement people" who used to want to make every element in a movie clickable so you could buy it. It's another flavor of going a step too far in a fantasy. I ask people "how do you get music to follow you around as you walk around the house" and there are all sorts of high tech solutions for sensing where you are and playing just the right music in the right room. Why not just carry an iPod (I used to say "walkman") which is a far better solution though with different social dynamics. The good news is that there is a point of diminishing returns on these approaches as you advertise only to those to whom you don't need to advertise or miss them altogether because your model determines your reality. In a sense it is like torture (or is a form of). We have the naïve idea that there is so much value in these techniques that we dismiss the fears of the consequences and implications because of the PoG (Pot-o-Gold) out there and the need to be very efficient with ad dollars. It's hard to get recognize the limits of the toothpaste model of interrogation (squeeze harder -- get more). Ad dollars can be a very effective source of indirect sponsorship but once they become overly targeted there is a risk of the mechanism becoming count-productive. Or at least so I hope -- Google does use a form of this in targeting their ads but they don't really dig deeper -- just use local context (or so I assume). Perhaps that's closer to sponsoring programs that appeal to an audience rather than personal snooping. -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 04:44 To: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: [IP] more on Coming to TV: ads about you -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [IP] Coming to TV: ads about you Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:17:55 -0500 From: Andrew Lippman <lip () media mit edu> To: dave () farber net References: <43838E82.9080005 () farber net> For IP, if interested. With respect to ads about you: The notion that a broadcaster radiates a signal with no respect for whether anyone is interested in receiving it is a waste of spectrum, energy, and time. It doesn't make sense to my students at all -- some think it is the equivalent of spam. Personally, I never understood why over-the-air broadcasters don't listen, but a back channel makes perfect sense for cable. When I watched the 2000 election returns at CBS, in New York, by 11:30PM, it seemed perfectly clear that Dan Rather would learn little more that night, so he simply ought to have told his audience to "go to bed, and if anything important happens, I'll call you..." But he couldn't. It's also potentially beneficial to narrowcast advertising. Twenty years ago, a Peabody, Mass., cable system tested phone-in requests for ads that were then queued on three dedicated channels. People did it. Many ads are both interesting and informative the first time you see them; some countries used to place them all at the ends of programs and people willingly remained tuned in. I might consider explicitly telling "The Daily Show" or CBS what I wanted my ad profile to be like. I'd even write a program to keep it current: "tell me about energy-saving thermostats real soon..." It's quite a different matter to monitor what you view from a recorder, and quite another matter to take information without asking, and this is indeed an assault on commonly accepted norms of privacy with respect to television viewing. There is no reason for those norms to change or be dictated by the provider. It won't last as such when we start watching TV off the internet anyway. The fix is simple. Just open the recorder architecture and the users might make something good out of this. A back channel can't be a bad idea in principle. In this case, it is not the technology that is awry, it is the business plan. Andy Lippman MIT Media Lab ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as BobIP () Bobf Frankston com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 16:33 To: ip () v2 listbox com Subject: [IP] Coming to TV: ads about you -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Coming to TV: ads about you Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:12:56 -0800 (PST) From: Gregory Hicks <ghicks () well com> Reply-To: Gregory Hicks <ghicks () well com> To: dave () farber net CC: ghicks () cadence com Dave: For IP if you wish... Are cable boxes the next target for spyware? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051117.wxhyperads17/BN Print/Business/ Coming to TV: ads about you By KEITH MCARTHUR Thursday, November 17, 2005 Posted at 4:41 AM EST
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
When you watch your favourite program in the not-too-distant future, your TV could be watching back. Cable companies are preparing to install software on digital set-top boxes that will keep track of everything you watch. Coupling that information with your address, the software would estimate your age, gender, interests and income. The result? Advertisers could send different commercials to different viewers. ... It could be years before the technology comes to Canada, but two U.S. cable companies are planning to roll it out early next year. The concept will likely raise red flags from privacy advocates, and its implications are enormous. Advertisers would be able to make sure the right ads are seen by the right people, challenging the old industry saying: "I know half my advertising dollars are wasted. I just don't know which half." Leading the charge is Invidi Technologies Corp., which is finalizing deals with two U.S. cable companies to install its software and begin "hypertargeting" ads early next year. The company, now based in Princeton, N.J., was founded in Edmonton, where half of its engineers are still headquartered. Invidi president David Downey was in Toronto this week to promote the software at a meeting of the Cable and Telecommunications Association for Marketing. It's astounding how quickly and accurately the Invidi software can come up with a demographic profile of a household and its members, Mr. Downey said during a panel discussion on the topic. "Our goal is to have this software in every set-top box in the world . . ." Mr. Downey said. "There's no one else that's doing what we're doing." --------------------------------------------------------------------- I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. "A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision." - Benjamin Franklin "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as BobIP () Bobf Frankston com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as lists-ip () insecure org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
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