Interesting People mailing list archives
Re Why Russia is Building Its Own Internet
From: "Dave Farber" <farber () gmail com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:07:59 -0500
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Touch <touch () strayalpha com> Date: January 26, 2018 at 11:28:00 AM EST To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] Re Why Russia is Building Its Own Internet Hi, Dave, This approach is somewhat frightening and ignores the lessons learned in the development of the Internet. I agree that the current Internet has (de)volved to fail to support some of the most fundamental requirements, including the use of globally unique identifiers (destroyed by NATs) and the ability to send/receive reasonable traffic on any port (destroyed by port blocking, DPI filters, and non-neutral nets). The application layer is NOT an interworking layer itself. Using it as we do now results in the same problems that plagued internetworking before the Internet - the need for N^2 translators, confusion over protocol translation semantics, and the increasing impediment to new systems being integrated. If, instead, we developed a common interworking layer at the app layer, all we would accomplish is to reinvent the Internet there, much less efficiently. Let's please not reinvent the wheel - because if we need to do that now, what is to stop us from eventually needing to do so again, when (not if) that layer suffers from the fate the current Internet endures. It's time to fix things, not reinvent them. JoeOn 1/25/2018 1:30 PM, Dave Farber wrote: ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Karl Auerbach <karl () cavebear com> Date: Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [IP] Why Russia is Building Its Own Internet To: <dave () farber net>, ip <ip () listbox com> CC: <dewayne () warpspeed com>, Steve Goldstein <steve.goldstein () comcast net>On 1/25/18 8:01 AM, Dave Farber wrote: [Note: This item comes from friend Steve Goldstein. DLH] Why Russia is Building Its Own Internet By Tracy Staedter Jan 17 2018 <https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/telecom/internet/could-russia-really-build-its-own-alternate-internet>It is not just countries that are slowly evolving to have their own internets, it is also companies. Remember how the net was at first just a network - the old ARPAnet kind of thing - and then we learned to create a "catnet" or "internet" in which we joined those separate networks into the larger whole that we call "the internet". Well, that crank can be turned again so that we have a network of internets. And it's happening in various ways and for various - and in many ways rather compelling - reasons. Back in 2016 I wrote a note about how I see this happening - https://www.cavebear.com/cavebear-blog/internet_quo_vadis/ The thesis of that note is that the end-to-end principle at the IP packet layer is essentially dead, but that that principle has strength today at the application layer - which means that any internet-of-internet that gives users the end-to-end experience they want from their favorite apps is a working internet no matter how inelegant the underlying plumbing may be to the eyes of old internet techies like many of us here. ... In the network of internets the address at the application level - which is the level that users care about - is what it has already become, a world of application-specific handles ranging from things like URL/URI constructs to Facebook names and Twitter handles to Google logins. That opens the door to a future network of internets in which IP address become mere local tokens just as MAC addresses really only have meaning within the context of a single Ethernet-like domain. My thesis is that today's internet can be evolve into a something that looks like isolated islands that are connected by well-guarded bridges....
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- Re Why Russia is Building Its Own Internet Dave Farber (Jan 26)