Re: FW: Behind the scenes...

[Ehud Gavron <GAVRON () ACES COM>]

Jim, in a purely communist/fascist way, let me
explicitly tell you once again.

This is the NANOG list.  The O is for "Operations." You know, ops.  
Operations.  O.P.E.R.A.T.E.  To work.  Stuff.  That works.

Unlike you.

Ehud

ob nanog stuff: SPRINT's {broken} confederation
        stuff was screwing us up at Anaheim.  It
        would record one flap at the border as
        2-3 flaps (depending ;) in the core.
        That meant 2 real flaps = dampening.
        We finally got them to fix it... your
        mileage may vary. (fix = turn off)

p.s. Read on if you want to chuckle lightly


> ----------
> From:  Jim Fleming[SMTP:JimFleming () unety net.]
> Sent:  Saturday, February 15, 1997 11:32 AM
> To:    'New Newdom'
> Subject:       Behind the scenes...


> For over 20 years I have been designing serious
                   1
> online information systems. I was fortunate to
                             2

        "Serious" information systems?  I've never
        seen an information system crack a joke.
        In fact, they haven't even been called 
        information systems but for the last ten
        years...

> spend much of that time at AT&T Bell Laboratories
> as an employee and a consultant. I am proud of
                                  3
> the fact that I was able to help launch the Videotex
               4
> industry and that some of the technology that AT&T
> patented on my behalf was used in the early Prodigy
> systems.

        You "help[ed] launch"?  You mean you pushed
        a button?  Did you launch or not launch?
        I helped launch the internet industry.  My
        industry makes yours obsolete.  Does this
        mean you have no credibility, oh, Father
        O' Obsolete VideoTex?


> For the past couple of years, I have become more
                               5
> involved in the behind the scenes activity of the
> Internet. Like many people, I have used the facilities
                             6

        Behind the scenes?  Which backroom cabal
        let you in?  You mean THIS mailing list?
        Com-priv?  Ietf?  Isoc?  Which of these
        open lists, open discussions, or closed
        contract negotiations make you think you
        are privy to ANY behind the scenes, as it
        were.

> for many years without much concern for who handled
> the governance needed to keep the network moving in
> a positive direction that benefits all people on earth
> and does not discriminate and degenerate like many
> societies on earth.

        The desire not to discriminate is not a goal
        of the Internet.  Perhaps you are confusing
        'The Internet' with 'The Constitution.'

> I am disappointed to report that the behind the scenes
 7
        Thank you for sharing your feelings.  Of
        course they hold zero weight.  Facts and
        figures, my deluded comrade, not feelings.

> Internet of 1997 looks more like a communist/fascist
        
        "Looks more like"???  IS IT or IS IT NOT?

> republic than the democratic system in the U.S. that
> helped to create the Internet. In my opinion, this is

        Your opinion has Opinion.Credibility==0.  See
        above under the section where I helped launch
        the Internet.

> partly because a few individuals have been allowed to
> rise to positions of visibility and power without the
> normal checks and balances that are present in a
> democracy.

        Normal checks and balances that are present in
        a democracy?  *puff*   *puff*

        You mean Waco?  Ruby Ridge?  Whitewater?  
        No >10-round-weapons?  No legalized pot despite
        voters' clear referenda?  Amendment against flag
        desecration?  Civil Forfeiture?  War on drugs?
        Holding Noriega without trial after kidnapping
        him from his sovereign territory?

        Which of these is your deluded self hoping to
        aspire to turn the internet into?

> We now have a situation where the so-called "leaders"
 ^^
        We?  Are you part of this back-scene stuff,
        this evil communist/fascist conspiracy?

> of the Internet support people who run around "blacklisting"
> and denying service to people at the drop of a hat. We
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

        Outright lie. Not worth dignifying with response.

> see the U.S. Government, via the NSF, funding people
> who are clearly the Internet equivalent of the mafia. We
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

        Valueless opinion.  Not worth ...

> see prominent Internet societies endorsing people who
> openly and publicly suggest that people's parents be
> "killed with fire axes". We see those groups claiming
> to have the support of the Whitehouse, which I doubt

        White House is two words, both capitalized.

> endorses such violence. The list goes on.

> When I first observed this situation, I will admit that I
      8                                9                 10
> was naive. I assumed that society would see these
            11
> problems and quickly correct these situations. I am
                                                12
> disappointed to report that not only is this not happening,
> it is getting worse.

> It appears that the only solution for rational adults
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

        You haven't identified a problem.  You haven't
        identified ANY solutions.  It's premature at
        this point to identify "the only solution" 
        unless you have the brain of a cabbage or
        turnip.

> (especially in the U.S.) is to turn and walk away. As
> this happens, the problem increases, because, what
> remains are these ego-maniac dictators who now infect

        Egomania is one word.  Egomaniac is a noun.
        Egomaniacal is the adjective you might use.

> the young people launching their careers in the tele-
> communications industry. Some of these young people
> then become ISPs, capture the attention of the public,
> and continue to propogate a system that will clearly
> lead to large scale social problems around the world.

        Sounds pretty capitalistic and free-market
        economy to me.  Lead on.

> Another solution is to create a new Internet that is
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        
        Wait.  You just told us "The only solution."
        Now you tell us "Another solution..."
        I think you're about 6% short of a 7% solution.

> "rooted" in democratic governments that have served
> great countries like the U.S. for many years. It is
> somewhat ironic that such a new system would have
> to be created as an alternative to the dictators currently
> being funded by the U.S. taxpayers via NSF grants
> and non-profit, tax-avoiding, companies. The system
> would also have to be created in the face of wide-spread
> opposition from young people who have already been
> polluted to think that everything the U.S. does is not
> in their interest, except for their tuition and salaries
> paid via government grants.

        Ah.  So you "Old Person" know it all, but 
        'young people' (no stratification listed)
        know nothing.  That's great, Jimmy.

> To create a new Internet, new servers and networks
> are not required. What is required is democractic
> governance. Because I believe in the U.S. system
                     12
> of democracy and I truely believe that 99.9% of
                  13   ^   ^^^^^^^

        Truly has no E in it.  Your beliefs have
        no foundation.  Share facts and figures,
        not your BELIEF in things.

> society wants to "do the right thing", I still have
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

        Read Locke.  Read Milton.  That which society
        DOES _IS_ the right thing.  QED.  Prima Facie.
        All that latin jazz.  Go read.  It's good for
        you. Reading Is Fun'amental.

> hope that democratic societies will take a hard
> look behind the scenes of the Internet to see the
> "society" that is pulling the strings. I have faith that
                                        14
> the real society and real governments will soon
> step forward to cut the ties to the dictators and
> their societies. This will help to ensure that children

        Real world, Jim Flaming.  Jim Flaming,
        real world.  When you have cleared dictators
        and their societies from the REAL WoRLD, you
        can then talk about it on the net.
        
        Maybe you can 'help launch' a new world.
        
> and adults everywhere have a chance to enjoy
> the wonderful resources that the Internet can
> provide in a truely democratic Internet society (small s).

> Thank you for your time...

        *puff*  "That's good shit, man."

        You used the word "I" 14 times.  Maybe it's
        timey YOU spent less time on YOU and more
        time realizing you're a nutcase kook who
        has no clue about what a society is, what
        the internet is, how the world is, how 
        things are run, and how to change them.
        
        It's called frustration.  Live it.


> --
> Jim Fleming
> Unir Corporation

> e-mail:
> JimFleming () unety net
> JimFleming@unety.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)

        Ehud
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