nanog mailing list archives
Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion
From: Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:00:59 -0500
Around 11:59 AM 1/9/2000 +1100, rumor has it that Adrian J Close said:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, Dean Anderson wrote:Umm, for the record, I do make such an accusation. When they probe a non-public government computer, they are violating 18 USC 1030 Sections 2(b), 2(c), and 3. Those are criminal violations. You simply may notThese may be criminal violations of US law, but I'm pretty sure New Zealand is a sovereign nation with its own government, laws and legal system. I think you'll have some trouble convincing the NZ government to allow the ORBS maintainer(s) to be extradited, especially seeing as the "crime" was committed on NZ soil where it likely isn't illegal.
I've already spoken with FBI about juridiction. FBI considers crimes against US computers to be US crimes, even when initiated from foriegn countries. They can extradite for this. That it originated from NZ isn't an issue. While the FBI agreed that these were indeed violations, my initial complaint was not prosecuted because we could at the time only come up with $900 in damages. We are closing on the $100K mark, where I'll make an updated complaint, which I hope will get more attention.
This is notionally pretty similar to what ORBS are doing in SMTP-relay land, which is understandable if you subscribe to their assertion that third-party relay is a "bad thing". If you need third party relay and deal with spammers in other ways, then ORBS become pretty annoying. Of course, you could always just ignore them...
We do ignore them. They are pretty ineffective at causing any mail problems for us. Which is another good reason not to use them. However, they enable spammers to find relays. Particularly annoying to me is they enable spammers to find our relay. When ORBS was blocked from 11/24 to 12/15, our relay troubles stopped. Spammers can't relay without a list of relays. ORBS provides that list. --Dean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean () av8 com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Current thread:
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion, (continued)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Owen DeLong (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Greg A. Woods (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Mr. James W. Laferriere (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion melinda b. thompson (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Greg A. Woods (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Dean Anderson (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Derek J. Balling (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Alex P. Rudnev (Jan 09)
- Spam, Law and Reality Charles E. Yow, Esq. (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Dean Anderson (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Derek J. Balling (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Dean Anderson (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Derek J. Balling (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion I Am Not An Isp (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Deepak Jain (Jan 09)
- Message not available
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Hank Nussbacher (Jan 10)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Owen DeLong (Jan 08)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Owen DeLong (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Dean Anderson (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Jim Popovitch (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Derek J. Balling (Jan 09)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Shawn McMahon (Jan 10)
- Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion Derek J. Balling (Jan 10)