nanog mailing list archives
Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers
From: Travis Pugh <tpugh () shore net>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:33:36 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 hardie () equinix com wrote:
Why are customers spending money on this? My belief is that they want more say in their own fate. That may express itself as a desire for redundancy in the case of catastrophic business failures, better ability to express their own routing policies, or a simple worry that they won't get the best price if they have only one supplier. At the core of this, though, is a desire for more control over something that they see as increasingly important to their own fate.
Why is pretty simple, in my (admittedly limited) experience with customers. Count the single points of failure on the way from a customer T1 to the ISP POP. Customer premesis equipment, especially if the customer doesn't buy something w/dual power supplies, redundant control processors, etc. Copper haul within the building. T1 local loop. Telco network. T1 or hubbed-DS3 card in the provider's customer edge router. Provider's customer edge router (assuming it doesn't have fully redundant components.) Add to that telco techs stealing pairs, and all the other fun events I'm sure we've all seen, and life at the end of a single circuit can get pretty sketchy. Top it off with a MTR well over 4 hours, especially when the blame game starts, and it gets nasty. Note that many of these problems aren't fixed until you have APS SONET, assuming someone engineered the protect path diversely. Now add a business that can't afford downtime, and multihoming becomes simple. How many SPs out there are offering customer circuits into multiple edge boxes for fault tolerance? Is this adequate, or does the availability requirement call for multiple POPs? Is this adequate, or is it necessary to go for multiple service providers? I think the first problem is that conventional wisdom tells the customer that they have to buy a circuit to two different SPs in order to get real fault tolerance. I haven't seen a whole lot of aggressive marketing about pulling two circuits into two edge boxes, using two different pieces of CPE or one fault-tolerant one. The industry isn't pushing the idea that you can have redundant service from a single provider. (grain of salt: one of our providers sold us a backup transit DS3 for the cost of the local loop) I'm at a multi-POP network in Boston. We've had great luck selling customers a Verizon circuit into one of our POPs and a Worldcom circuit into a different one. It costs more, but they don't have nearly the exposure of a single circuit customer. However, if you're not set up to do this, the appropriate level of paranoia calls for circuits to two different providers. Maybe if SPs really addressed availability requirements of their customers, it wouldn't be such an issue. -travis
Current thread:
- RE: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers, (continued)
- RE: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Richard A. Steenbergen (Apr 02)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Sheldon Dubrowin (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Bora Akyol (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Scott Francis (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Simon Lyall (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Sheldon Dubrowin (Apr 03)
- RE: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Richard A. Steenbergen (Apr 02)
- RE: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Sean Donelan (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Greg Maxwell (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Yakov Rekhter (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Greg Maxwell (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers hardie (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Travis Pugh (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers hardie (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Shawn McMahon (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Jesper Skriver (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers RJ Atkinson (Apr 03)
- Whitelist contacts Mike Batchelor (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Jesper Skriver (Apr 04)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Yakov Rekhter (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Travis Pugh (Apr 04)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers Greg Maxwell (Apr 03)
- Re: Faster 'Net growth rate raises fears about routers hardie (Apr 03)