Re: Independent space from ARIN

[Jeff McAdams <jeffm () iglou com>]

Also Sprach jlewis () lewis org
> Based on recent activity with www.arin.net, I think they're more concerned 
> with the look & feel of their web site than the actual content.  I'd say 
> fire the graphic design person/people and use that money to simply keep 
> the site up to date and functional or to pay more IP analysts.

...

> There does seem to be either a lack of consistency or some conflicting 
> policies depending on how many allocations you've gotten.  You might get 
> used to one policy and then find it no longer applies to you.

...

> I've run into this too...having ARIN point fingers at past growth and 
> simultaneously quoting rfc2050 saying to only request 3 months worth.  
> IMO, that policy sucks, which is why I suggested someone write an update 
> for rfc2050.  Actually, once you get used to dealing with ARIN, filling 
> out the forms the way they want, and have your IP allocation data in a 
> format that lends itself to easily filling in the blanks on the request 
> form, getting more space isn't that big a deal, but it still is a pain to 
> do, requires updating filters, router configs, routing registries, etc. 
> and doing it several times a year just seems like a waste of time.  Once a 
> year would be more acceptable.

We're in agreement on these points...

FWIW, our SWIP's are perfectly up to do.  While they're not filed
automatically by our billing/provisioning system, it does put in a
ticket into our ticket tracking system to tell one of our technicians to
do it...and our billing/provisioning system is *anal* about it, too.  :)

> > Suffice it to say, that would not have been practical in our case.

> If that's the sort of detail you gave ARIN, it's no surprise you've not
> gotten what you want from them.

No, I gave ARIN considerably more detail than that...I just don't care
to share what could be considered internal, proprietary information
about our network on a public mailing list.  We don't have a great deal
to hide, and we don't do things drastically differently than many other
networks, but I'd rather not broadcast how we're set up far and wide,
thanks.

> > allocation...we just, again, wanted to renumber out of the PA (what
> > does the "A" stand for, there, by the way?) space, with a /20+.  And,
> > no, I'm

> PI = provider indepentent (you can take it with you if you change providers)
> PA = provider assigned (switch providers and you lose the space)
> or were you being rhetorical for some reason?

No, I knew the concepts, I just couldn't figure out what the "A"
expanded out to.  Nothing more.

> going to have to renumber in 3 months if you want all that renumbering
> to be into a single block.  Like it or not, those appear to be the
> rules.

Yup, thus my comment(s) about common sense being dead.

> > given the allocations (both PA and PI) that we have, and we're
> > desiring (for business reasons as well as altruistic) to renumber out
> > of PA space into fewer, but larger, PI blocks.  ARIN has been a
> > stumbling block to us accomplishing these things every step of the
> > way.

> Other than doing your part to slow routing table growth (and the
> obvious desire to get as much space as possible, as infrequently as
> possible from ARIN), why do you care how many IP blocks (and what
> sizes) you have?  For traffic engineering purposes, there are actually
> advantages to more smaller blocks.

Agreed...having smaller blocks allows finer grained control of
traffic...but for the reasons you noted, there, we're trying to "Do the
Right Thing", as I said.  While we're a business, and are in it to make
money, (and successfully do so), we still try to have something of a
community minded approach to dealing with issues of commons (such as
routing table size, ip address depletion, etc.).  I know its rare to see
an ISP actually care about things like that for other's benefit...but
that's really, a large part of the reason that we try to do this.

Of course, not having to go back to ARIN every 3 months is a benefit as
well, so its not completely altruistic, but there is certainly an
element of altruism (believe it or not) to it.

> > ARIN has failed to accomplish everything that it was created to do.
> > Its whole purpose for existence has basically not been served.

> It makes a big profit though :)  Have you seen their financial reports?

I've been scared to look.  I'm already cynical enough about ARIN.

> > Well...as someone else mentioned...apparently you can never fill out
> > an ARIN form without ever being asked for clarification on a
> > different form.  Why don't they just have you fill out the second
> > form in the first place?

> Practice.

Well...that gives me hope for the future...and other than being
annoying, wasn't really the crux of my issues with ARIN.

> > And some people wonder why most of the world dreads dealing with
> > ARIN.

> Most of the world doesn't have to...just North America.

True...but my point is still basically valid, if you ignore the
ethnocentrism.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: jeffm () iglou com
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

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