Re: Access to the IPv4 net for IPv6-only systems, was: Re: WG Action: Conclusion of IP Version 6 (ipv6)

[Marshall Eubanks <tme () multicasttech com>]

On Oct 4, 2007, at 4:56 AM, Mark Newton wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 10:37:22AM +0200, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>
> > The crucial difference is that there is an upgrade path. There is no
> > upgrade path from a network with NAT to a network where you don't
> > have to work around NAT. That's why it's so important to keep the NAT
> > in IPv4 and not let it sneak into IPv6.
>
> Most of us debating this with you _don't care_ if NAT happens to exist
> on the IPv6 Internet.  It's on the IPv4 Internet and we still manage
> to use the network for the things we want to use it for, so we're
> mounting an empirical case to say that portrayal of NAT that you're
> presenting is false.

Plus, it may give you a legal defense !

In this trial

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-testimony-.html

her defense basically boil down to, because my home network was  
NATed, who knows who
was using that IP address ?

Regards (with tongue firmly in cheek)
Marshall

> Basically, your argument boils down to aesthetics.  You don't like
> NAT.  You want it to go away.  Fine, I don't like it either and I
> wouldn't mind if it went away...
>
> But funnily enough, I can remember having exactly these same
> arguments with people about IPv4 NAT. And y'know what?  They
> didn't make a lick of difference, because NAT could be (and was)
> deployed unilaterally, without any semblance of global coordination.
>
> {Your|My} aesthetic sense isn't actually in charge here.  Moan about
> it all you want, but it's _inevitable_ that every tool in the toolbox,
> including NAT-PT, will be used to smooth-over IPv6 adoption  
> challenges.
> And if you don't like it, you're just gonna have to cope.
>
> Your alternatives are:
>
>   - NAT-PT with well-understood standards and operational guidelines
>     aimed at maximizing interoperability;  and
>
>   - NAT-PT without well-understood standards and operational  
> guidelines,
>     where interoperability is a flukish crapshoot, where random stuff
>     just fails to work because there are no agreed-upon ways to use
>     application awareness at layer-4 to work around breakage.
>
> In that universe, where you have to pick one, which one would
> you rather see in widespread deployment?  And if it's the first
> alternative, what kind of results do you think you'll get by opposing
> efforts to develop standards for NAT?
>
>   - mark
>     [ wondering how long it'll be before I'll be able to buy a CEF-
>       accelerated TCAM-equipped layer-4 switching blade for a  
> 7600 :-) ]
>
>
> --
> Mark Newton                               Email:   
> newton () internode com au (W)
> Network Engineer                          Email:   
> newton () atdot dotat org  (H)
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