nanog mailing list archives
Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW)
From: Nathan Ward <nanog () daork net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:56:30 +1300
On 5/02/2009, at 2:35 PM, Scott Howard wrote:
What happens when a customer wants to run multiple networks is something Ihaven't seen answered yet - with NAT it's easy, but as I said, NAT is apparently evil...
You give them more than a /64.RFC4291 says that it should be a /48, but people seem to be keen on / 56s now. /60s are even ok. They key here is that is is divisible by 4, which leaves full hex digits for the customer to twiddle. Somewhere (free.fr?) are doing / 61, which is a bit tough for people that aren't so technical.
Here in NZ, users typically purchase their own ADSL CPE, and that runs PPPoATM over ADSL, and does IPv4 NAT and so on. What is also common, is people buy a "wireless router" and plug it in to the back of their ADSL router. They now have two layers of NAT between wireless hosts and the Internet.
I looked at a packet trace of outgoing packets from an ISP - 17% of outgoing packets were from behind double NAT like this (TTL was 62 or 126, as opposed to 63 or 127).
For this topology to work in IPv6, multiple levels of PD are required, or users can no longer do this sort of plug-and-pray networking. Fun fun.
Personally, I think we should have PD forwarding - ie. a router can forward PD requests from routers behind it up to the ISP, and the ISP can dish out another /64. It means there are more routes in that particular router at the ISP, but it means you don't have to worry about how much address space to give to each customer - if they need more they ask for it automatically.
-- Nathan Ward
Current thread:
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW), (continued)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Mark Andrews (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Matthew Moyle-Croft (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Mr. James W. Laferriere (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Matthew Moyle-Croft (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Matthew Moyle-Croft (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Nathan Ward (Feb 04)
- RE: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) TJ (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Iljitsch van Beijnum (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Jack Bates (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Valdis . Kletnieks (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] (IPv6-MW) Nathan Ward (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Joe Abley (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Mikael Abrahamsson (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Joe Abley (Feb 04)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Stephen Sprunk (Feb 06)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Iljitsch van Beijnum (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Ricky Beam (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] John Osmon (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Sven-Haegar Koch (Feb 05)
- RE: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Robert D. Scott (Feb 05)
- Re: v6 & DSL / Cable modems [was: Private use of non-RFC1918 IP space (IPv6-MW)] Randy Bush (Feb 05)