nanog mailing list archives
Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation
From: joel jaeggli <joelja () bogus com>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:49:42 -0700
Frank Bulk wrote:
With scarcity of IPv4 addresses, organizations are more desperate than ever to receive an allocation.
Factual evidence that pi allocation is in fact hard to obtain would be required to support that statement. The fact of the matter is if you have a legitimate application congruent with current policy you'll get your addresses just like you would last year. Now if your business is contingent on the availability of pi addressing resources obviously you have a fiduciary responsibility to address that problem in short order.
If anything, there's more of a disincentive than ever before for ARIN to spend time on netblock sanitization.
This whole thread seems to be about shifting (I.E. by externalizing) the costs of remediation. presumably the entities responsible for the poor reputation aren't likely to pay... So heck, why not ARIN? perhaps because it's absurd on the face of it? how much do my fees go up in order to indemnify ARIN against the cost of a possible future cleanup? how many more staff do they need? Do I have to buy prefix reputation insurance as contingent requirement for a new direct assignment?
I do think that ARIN should inform the new netblock owner if it was previously owned or not.
We've got high quality data extending back through a least 1997 on what prefixes have been advertised in the DFZ, and of course from the ip reputation standpoint it doesn't so much matter if something was assigned, but rather whether it was ever used. one assumes moreover that beyond a certain point in the not too distant future it all will have been previously assigned (owned is the wrong word).
But if ARIN tried to start cleaning up a netblock before releasing it, there would be no end to it. How could they check against the probably hundreds of thousands private blocklist?
Note that they can't insure routability either, though as a community we've gotten used to testing for stale bogon filters.
Frank -----Original Message----- From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.lists () gmail com] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:40 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation <snip> They can (and IMHO should) determine the state it is in before they reallocate it. What happens next is obviously unpredictable but in reality an IP that isn't being blocked today and isn't being used (by anyone) is highly unlikely to be widely blocked between today and the day ARIN releases it for allocation to a new entity. They can hold IPs that are not suitable for re-allocation, or at least make the status of the IPs known to the new entity before asking the entity to take on the IP block, and perhaps offering a fee discount for "tainted" addresses. (Some users may not care if the IPs are "tainted", if, for instance they plan to use the IPs for a DUL pool. I have a friend who gets $5 off his cell phone bill because he has a phone number that starts with 666 - a number that many people prefer to avoid but which works fine for his purposes and he's quite happy to get the discount. :-) <snip> ARIN shouldn't allocate previously allocated IPs until they know the IPs are not widely blocked. Or to *at the very least* ARIN should disclose what they know about the IP space before they make it someone else's problem, and give the requesting entity an option to request a new/clean/unused/unblocked IP block instead. <snip> jc
Current thread:
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation, (continued)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Joe Greco (Sep 12)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation James Cloos (Sep 12)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Joe Greco (Sep 12)
- RE: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Keith Medcalf (Sep 12)
- Message not available
- Message not available
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation JC Dill (Sep 08)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Joe Greco (Sep 08)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Alex Balashov (Sep 08)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation JC Dill (Sep 09)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Jay Hennigan (Sep 09)
- RE: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Frank Bulk (Sep 12)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation joel jaeggli (Sep 12)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation, replaced by registered use Douglas Otis (Sep 14)
- RE: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation, replaced by registered use Lee Howard (Sep 14)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation, replaced by registered use David Conrad (Sep 14)
- RE: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation, replaced by registered use Azinger, Marla (Sep 14)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Justin Shore (Sep 14)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Martin Hannigan (Sep 14)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Martin Hannigan (Sep 15)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Justin Shore (Sep 15)
- RE: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Aaron Wendel (Sep 15)
- Re: Repeated Blacklisting / IP reputation Joe Maimon (Sep 09)