nanog mailing list archives
Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
From: Barry Shein <bzs () world std com>
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:47:00 -0500
On February 5, 2011 at 18:11 dhc2 () dcrocker net (Dave CROCKER) wrote:
On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that would survive in the case of all out war and massive destruction. (strategic nuclear strikes)Urban legend, although widely believed. Someone probably made the observation.Maybe not quite an UL... <http://www.rand.org/about/history/baran.html> On the average, The Rand Corp is extremely careful about what it publishes, yet here it is, repeating the claim.
I agree with Dave, I think this idea that it's an urban legend has now become an urban legend. If you focus it down very sharply like this: DARPA specified (or, perhaps, the project was sold to DARPA with a promise...) that the network being designed in the late 1960s should be resistant to a nuclear attack. That's probably an urban legend, who knows, it's probably not all that interesting. But was it observed over and over from the early on that a packet network, versus the then predominant technology of virtual (or even real) circuit networks, would be resistant to damage of all sorts? Yes. Another early motivation which isn't often mentioned in these discussions was the sharing of supercomputer resources. Supercomputers generally cost tens of millions of dollars back then, approaching $100 million if you took the infrastructure into account. I worked on a $100M supercomputer proposal as it evolved into 50 tons of chilled water on the roof to shoring up the roof to hold that much water, to running a private gigawatt power line from the local utility thru Boston...etc. And the sort of people who needed access to those supercomputers were spread across the country (and world of course.) It was becoming a matter of whether to move the researchers, not very practical (how many finite element analysis experts do you really need at one university?), or buy each of them a supercomputer (kind of expensive), or try to hook them up remotely. At first dial-up seemed plausible but data visualization, graphical access, became more and more important even in the late 1970s and early 80s. Researchers were shipping large cartons of magtape so they could use local computers to generate graphical results of their computations. It was unwieldy to be kind. The internet was a good answer to that problem, and that vision of "high-speed" (for the era) remote access certainly factored into proposals such as the JVNC-era proposals, NSFnet, etc. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs () TheWorld com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Current thread:
- RE: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch, (continued)
- RE: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch George Bonser (Feb 04)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Jack Bates (Feb 04)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Randy Bush (Feb 04)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Fred Baker (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Dave CROCKER (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Fred Baker (Feb 05)
- RE: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch George Bonser (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch bmanning (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Michael Coxe (Feb 06)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Lamar Owen (Feb 07)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Barry Shein (Feb 06)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Dave CROCKER (Feb 06)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Fernando Gont (Feb 27)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Eric Brunner-Williams (Feb 06)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Jay Ashworth (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Fred Baker (Feb 05)
- RE: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Ryan Finnesey (Feb 05)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Alastair Johnson (Feb 06)
- RE: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch George Bonser (Feb 03)
- Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch Paul Ferguson (Feb 03)