nanog mailing list archives
Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,)
From: Stephen Sprunk <stephen () sprunk org>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:23:42 -0500
On 10-Jun-12 14:01, Robert Bonomi wrote:
From: Jay Ashworth <jra () baylink com> Even Further Off-Topic, isn't "debit" supposed to be "cash"? Why do I pay the Credit price for it?It is, and *ISN'T*, 'cash'. Unlike cash (and like a credit card), it is simply an instruction to a third party to pay the retailer a specified amount. And as such, is subject to the terms of the contract between -those- parties as to how payment is made an what charges are imposed. Unlike a credit card, the money _is_ immediately dedecuted from your bank account.
All of the above is completely irrelevant to the merchant.
Like a credit card, it is the third-party clearinghouse that gets the mone from you, and passes it on to the retailer. AFTER extracting their charges for the service they provide.
FWIW, this is known as the "discount" rate.
You pay the 'credit' price, because the card issuer, and the clearinghouse operations _charge_ the merchant the same amount for those transactions as for 'credit' ones. Thus the merchant does not receive any of the benefits of a 'cash' transaction, so there is no 'discount' to pass on to the buyer.
The merchant's discount rate varies between card types. That's why many merchants don't accept AmEx, DC, CB and Nexus: their discount rates are higher than Visa and MC. For a low-margin business, the difference in rates can make the difference between profit and loss on a given sale.
At one point, VISA, charged -more- for debit transactions than credit ones. Despite the fact that there was -zero- risk to them on the debit transaction.
Wrong. Even debit cards present a risk of chargeback due to fraud. However, the fraud rates are lower due to the us of PINs, so the discount rate is also lower.
VISA got sued over the matter, since (at that time) it was impossible to tell whether the card number presented was debit or credit.
It's still impossible to tell, which is why most card terminals ask whether the card is credit or debit. If you press the "credit" button, even if the card is a debit card, it is processed as a credit card--with the credit card discount rate. That's why Visa's advertising and contests promote customers using signature (i.e. "credit") transactions: Visa gets more money that way (at the cost of their merchants).
As a result of the lawsuit, the cost differential between credit and debit transactions was eliminated.
... except it's still there, though perhaps in the other direction. The discount rate for "debit" transactions is lower, but a PIN must be used to get that rate. The exact rates vary between card networks, card processors and even merchants, but a few years ago the numbers I heard were 4% for "credit" (i.e. signature) transactions and 1% for "debit" (i.e. PIN) transactions. That is why those nifty PIN terminals appeared everywhere virtually overnight: saving 3% on every "debit" transaction easily paid for all those new terminals. S -- Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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Current thread:
- Re: Dear Linkedin,, (continued)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Lyle Giese (Jun 09)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Joe Greco (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Mikael Abrahamsson (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Barry Shein (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, John T. Yocum (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Michael Thomas (Jun 10)
- OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Jay Ashworth (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Michael Thomas (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Stephen Sprunk (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Robert Bonomi (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Stephen Sprunk (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Joel jaeggli (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Robert Bonomi (Jun 10)
- Re: OT: Credit card policies (was Re: Dear Linkedin,) Barry Shein (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Robert Bonomi (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Robert Bonomi (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Jay Ashworth (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Owen DeLong (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Joe Greco (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Jimmy Hess (Jun 10)
- Re: Dear Linkedin, Owen DeLong (Jun 10)