Re: competition (was: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica)

[Keegan Holley <no.spam () comcast net>]

On Mar 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Jared Mauch <jared () puck nether net> wrote:

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Keegan Holley <no.spam () comcast net> wrote:
>
> > How come no one ever asks if competition is required?
>
> I think the issue here is there is competition, but those you are seen as competing with are in a different strata 
> providing the same service.

My question is competition and the market the goal at all?
> eg: Cellular data competes with DSL/DOCSIS/FTT*
>
> Now, due to speed, caps, etc.. it may not be a "fair" comparison, but this isn't about fair, it's about "is there 
> competition in the market".  I know many folks that live outside the wired high-speed boundaries and things are not 
> getting any better there.  Most use some hotspot or similar for their home connectivity.
>
> Is there a market for high speed there?  certainly, but it's being filled by other technology.  

Again why is the market so important?  The inhabitants of this list operate (some help develop) the most complex system 
created by our species to date.  It is one of the few truly global systems and brought with it a new era in human 
development.  We now have more information at our fingertips than at any point in history.  What do we argue about?  
How to profit from it?  I’m not saying that profit is bad. I’m arrogant but not arrogant enough to think I can answer 
such a question.  It just fascinates me that no one questions it.

If an area isn’t considered not to be profitable it’s just fine that the internet doesn’t stretch there.  We don’t even 
have a definition of what profitable means.  It’s completely up to the ISP’s.  Still, businesses in that area are 
limited, children don’t do as well in school and in turn don’t have as much opportunity.  All of this happens, 
unquestioned in the name of profits.

> There are many folks that work around these issues with other solutions, including satellite, fixed wireless and/or 
> microwave or even localized fiber build-outs.  Look at the RUS/NTIA/BTOP focus, it was on getting the anchor 
> institutions well connected to provide a sense of community.  The challenge is not everyone is equally equipped.  
> Merit (in my area) has fiber close to me, but they don't offer services to anyone but existing members and have no 
> consumer offerings.
>
> Market segmentation happens for a variety of reasons, sometimes economic, sometimes complete differences in ROI 
> models.

Market segmentation doesn’t happen as much as market consolidation.  There are now three (with a 4th that is close) 
major carriers in the US with enough market share to compete with each other.  There isn’t much segmentation because 
segmentation isn’t as profitable.

> Nobody can afford to run universal fiber everywhere as a greenfield build, but there are localized markets where it 
> can make sense.  

That’s totally untrue.  What is affordable to a multi-billion dollar ISP anyway?  Are you saying they’d go bankrupt if 
they ran fiber everywhere?  No, it’s just that the infrastructure isn’t profitable in the short term.  There’s a reason 
why energy companies can’t make the same decision.

> Certainly it can make sense to connect some islands to each other via some other technology.  Taking list prices from 
> providers webpages, what cogent used to list $4/meg, so that means (assuming everything is perfect) offering 10Mb/s 
> service at a home could possibly cost $40/mo for a provider, not counting capital costs and other elements (support, 
> customer acquisition costs, bad debt, etc).
>
> I'm sure folks can build networks for low cost, you can get a 1G active-ethernet NID for sub-$150 with optics, but 
> you still need to aggregate and account for it somewhere.

Again why does everything have to move at the speed of profit?  At least here in the US anything that could remotely 
benefit society is always first shot through the prism of profit and the so-called free market.  Is a market with three 
major players and a 9-figure entry cost really free though?


> - Jared