nanog mailing list archives
Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT]
From: Barry Shein <bzs () world std com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:11:55 -0400
I've done a fair amount of hand-to-hand combat with systemd. When it's good it's good, tho not always apparent why it's good. But for example some of my servers boot in seconds. When it's bad it can be painful and incredibly opaque and a huge time sink. Googling for suggestions I've found several threads where the co-author (Poettering) jumps in usually to be annoyingly arrogant (I'm sure he's very bright and good to children and pets and overworked) responding with comments like why don't you just read your logs and not bother this list or similar (that was paraphrased.) The logs are, in my experience, almost always useless or nearly so, "mumble failed to start" basically. I'm not the only one: http://www.muktware.com/2014/04/linus-torvalds-happy-systemd-author-kay-sievers/25151 It also resists tools like strace because it tends to do things by IPC. In one extreme case I just reworked an /etc/init.d script to avoid systemd (not use the various /etc/rc.foo files), mostly just hit it with a sledgehammer and put fixing that on my TODO list. Unfortunately I am mortal and have limited time on this earth. My experience as I said is mixed, hard cases are very hard where they really seem like they shouldn't be (just tell me roughly what you're trying to do rather than just fail, eg, via some debug enable), most are just your usual oops it wants this or that situations. I don't think I'd want to revert to sysvinit, systemd seems architecturally superior. But it needs a lot more transparency and some attempt to gather common problems -- like why is it hanging asking for a password on the console when I can't see why it thinks it needs one? -- and FAQ them with real answers or add some code/configuration to fix that (never ask for a password in this script OK? And no --no-ask-password isn't fixing this so stop repeating that answer!) -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs () TheWorld com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Current thread:
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch, (continued)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Matt Palmer (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Andre Tomt (Oct 22)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch * (Oct 23)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Jim Popovitch (Oct 23)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Valdis . Kletnieks (Oct 23)
- RE: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Jeff Masiello (Oct 24)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Matt Palmer (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd adoption and Debian's decision to switch Miles Fidelman (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Andrew Sullivan (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Christopher Morrow (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Miles Fidelman (Oct 21)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Barry Shein (Oct 22)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Ricky Beam (Oct 22)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Barry Shein (Oct 23)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] nanog (Oct 22)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Jeffrey Ollie (Oct 22)
- Re: Linux: concerns over systemd [OT] Barry Shein (Oct 23)