Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

[sronan () ronan-online com]

Considering Verizon has a very sizable fleet of private aircraft, I am fairly certain this will happen often.

Shane

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 4:59 PM, nanog08 () mulligan org wrote:
>
>  Scott - a side note to clarify things...  
>
> The 737 Max8 problem was NOT due to lack of testing or non-incremental changes.  The system was well tested and put 
> through it's paces.  It was a lack of proper pilot training in the aircraft and its systems and some carriers 
> choosing to NOT purchase specific flight control options.
>
> Full disclosure - my classmate was the Chief Test Pilot for the MAX8 and another classmate is the current FAA 
> Administrator.
>
> But I digress - sorry...
>
> If you look at 5G deployments around Japan and Europe, generally they are NOT right up next to major airports.
>
> I would like to ask ATT and Verizon senior leadership to put their loved ones onto a commercial aircraft that is 
> flying into ORD during a blizzard on a Zero-Zero landing (the pilots relying on radio altimeters) and the 5G network 
> up and running and then ask how confident they are that NOTHING will interfere and 5G is perfectly safe.
>
> Geoff   
>
> > On 1/19/22 14:37, Scott McGrath wrote:
> > I’m guessing you are not a pilot,  one reason aviation is resistant to change is its history is written in blood,    
> > Unlike tech aviation is incremental change and painstaking testing and documentation of that testing.  
> >
> > When that does not happen we get stuff like the 737 Max debacle
> >
> > Aviation is the antithesis of ‘Move fast and break things mentality’ for a very good reason safety.
> >
> > On my flying club’s plane every replacement part comes with a pedigree which is added to the plane’s maintenance log 
> > upon installation and the reason for removing the old one recorded 
> >
> > Imagine how much easier our networks would be to maintain if we had records down to the last cable tie in the data 
> > center.   If there was a bug in a SFP+ for instance all of them, when they were installed and by who and what 
> > supplier they came from was readily available sure would make my life easier. 
> >
> > The reasoning behind that massive pile of documents (pilot joke ‘a plane is not ready to fly until the weight of the 
> > paperwork equals the weight of the airplane’) is that if a failure is traced to a component all of them can be 
> > traced and removed from service.
> >
> > On a Airbus for instance all the takeoff and landing safety systems are tied to the RadAlt.  The EU has strict rules 
> > about where the c-band can be used as does Japan both use the 120 second rule c-band devices not allowed in areas 
> > where the the aircraft is in its beginning/ending 2 minutes of flight.
> >
> > So the REST of the world got c-band right the US not so much
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:59 AM Dennis Glatting <dg () pki2 com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2022-01-18 at 12:29 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:
> > > > I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be
> > > > having 
> > > > this fight now, right?
> > >
> > > I worked in aviation as a technologist. Aviation is resistant to change.
> > > Any change. When you fly older aircraft, be aware that the software is
> > > old. Very old. As in some of the vendors long ago stopped supporting the
> > > software kind of old, assuming the vendors still exist. 
> > >
> > > Aviation didn't wake up one day with the sudden appearance of 5G. They
> > > knew it was comming. They, aviation themselves, are heavily involved in
> > > standards. Aviation had plenty of time to test, correct, and protest.
> > >
> > > What aviation now wants is a 5G exclusion zone around airports, or what
> > > I sarcastically call "a technology exclusion zone," which tends to be
> > > businesses and homes. What is aviation going to do when 6G comes along?
> > > A new WiFi standard is implemented? Any other unforeseen future
> > > wired/wireless technologies? Or perhaps cell phones should go back to
> > > Morse Code for aviation's sake?
> > >
> > > 🤷‍♂️️
> > >
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Dennis Glatting
> > > Numbers Skeptic