Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing
From: "Rapaille Maxime" <Max.Rapaille () nbb be>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:23:41 +0100
Hi, While i Can agree on some point, I think that offering your services to the installer won't help. I did it some times with company I had good contact with. I told their installer there were some Security issue, and offered to help them secure it. They politely refused and never corrected anything. More, they discredited us to their customer.. The fact is that a non security aware installer will react in 2 possible ways : - Who are those guys trying to tell me my job. The are paranoid... No need for Security - Hey, those guy will tell my customer I'm incompetent, and try to steal my business. Go out !. And perhaps the customer will also think some of these options or get convinced/confused by the installer defending his bread.. The best way is sometimes to offer your services, and wait/hope they will awake some days, or perhaps too late, when they got attacked... CHeers Maxime -----Original Message----- From: Ron Yount [mailto:rony () co island wa us] Sent: donderdag 12 januari 2006 0:48 To: Rapaille Maxime; Password Crackers, Inc.; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing The controlling interest of the network has to have a inclination to secure and maintain there network. Institutions which are concerned with the integrity of there information, computers and networks do perform audits and make efforts to secure and maintain the them. Other institutions only care that the computers and network "works". They have no inclination to maintain the networks beyond a basic connection. The only way to change this is through the management of an institution realizing what there computers, networks and information are worth. In the case of pre-scanning is seen as cold calling to some and outright criminal activity by others. The networks are still vulnerable none the less. I think it is a bad situation for both the potential client and the security professional. A better way may be to find out who installed the network and offer to the installer your services. Ron -----Original Message----- From: Rapaille Maxime [mailto:Max.Rapaille () nbb be] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:56 PM To: Password Crackers, Inc.; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Hi, During some site survey or wireless audit, I have found some companies (other that the current customer) having badly protected Wifi network. And a lot of non protected at all, advertising the name of the company or the university as SSID. I have found myself in the same dilemna : contact or not contac them ? I tried once, and got a 'very' negative reaction.. Never did it again But Yes, it's very frustrating to see all those companies need our services, and you can't help. Perhaps, for example, if it's very critical for your country (some gov institution or the like) you could try to contact a kind of computer Crime unit (like we have in Belgium) and explain them the situation.. If they understand what you are speaking about they woumld probably react, but, they won't be able to give your company's name as a reference.. Frustrating dilemna... Regards Max -----Original Message----- From: Password Crackers, Inc. [mailto:pwcrack () pwcrack com] Sent: woensdag 11 januari 2006 3:43 To: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Please allow me to clarify that I have NOT done anything like this, I am not advocating it and have no plans to do so. I am aware that many prospects would potentially view this negatively. I mentioned in my original post that I understood this. Doing so could permanently impact someone's reputation. So, let's all understand that we are speaking about a hypothetical. I was interested to know if anyone had done so previously and what the reaction was. Clearly, it appears that other than a few free offers (I've made two of these in the past -- both with no response), this type of approach seems to be so negatively viewed that nobody would even attempt it. However, doesn't anyone else view this as something of a dilemma? As a group we are incapacitated from offering services to those who may need them (unless we do so inefficiently) even though certainly vulnerabilities are easily and efficiently identified. Unfortunately, the best analogy I can come up with is ambulance chasing lawyers -- who seem to be hated, so we probably don't want to follow their lead professionally. Has anyone effectively resolved this dilemma in their practice? Possibly that is how I should have phrased the original post. Bob Weiss Password Crackers, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Clement Dupuis [mailto:cdupuis () cccure org] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:19 PM To: 'Password Crackers, Inc.' Subject: RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing I would definitively say: DON'T What right do you have to test my environment without me asking. What differentiate you from any other cracker out there. You are just another one of them as far as I am concerned. Would you get any business this way? Probably some but very little and not from the client your really wish to build a long term relationship with. Thinks of the negative publicity and the fact that someone will take you to court for attempting to intruder on their communication means. Overall I would definitively NOT do it Clement -----Original Message----- From: Password Crackers, Inc. [mailto:pwcrack () pwcrack com] Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:11 AM To: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Pre-Scanning for Marketing I am interested if anyone on the list has ever tested or implemented a marketing program that involved pre-scanning (wired or wireless) a prospect and then sending a letter or email describing potential vulnerabilities and offering assistance in closing these vulnerabilities. I have never done this because of the anticipated negative reaction, but I am curious as to what the outcome was if anyone else has done it. Single instances would be interesting, but I am more curious if anyone has implemented this in a more broad-based way and has positive and/or negative response rate statistics. Bob Weiss Password Crackers, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- Audit your website security with Acunetix Web Vulnerability Scanner: Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts, forms, login pages, dynamic content etc. Firewalls, SSL and locked-down servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web attacks before hackers do! Download Trial at: http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/pen-test_050831 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Audit your website security with Acunetix Web Vulnerability Scanner: Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts, forms, login pages, dynamic content etc. Firewalls, SSL and locked-down servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web attacks before hackers do! Download Trial at: http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/pen-test_050831 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------- ----------------------------------------- Visit our website! http://www.nbb.be "DISCLAIMER: The content of this e-mail message should not be construed as binding on the part of the National Bank of Belgium (NBB) unless otherwise and previously stated. The opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect NBB viewpoints, particularly when the content of this message, or part thereof, is private by nature or does not fall within the professional scope of its author." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- Audit your website security with Acunetix Web Vulnerability Scanner: Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts, forms, login pages, dynamic content etc. Firewalls, SSL and locked-down servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web attacks before hackers do! Download Trial at: http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/pen-test_050831 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Audit your website security with Acunetix Web Vulnerability Scanner: Hackers are concentrating their efforts on attacking applications on your website. Up to 75% of cyber attacks are launched on shopping carts, forms, login pages, dynamic content etc. Firewalls, SSL and locked-down servers are futile against web application hacking. Check your website for vulnerabilities to SQL injection, Cross site scripting and other web attacks before hackers do! Download Trial at: http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/pen-test_050831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing, (continued)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Ed Hudson (Jan 10)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Stonewall (Jan 11)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Password Crackers, Inc. (Jan 10)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Wray, Donald W (Jan 11)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing David Ball (Jan 11)
- Re: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Robin Wood (Jan 11)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Rapaille Maxime (Jan 11)
- Re: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Pete Herzog (Jan 11)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Ron Yount (Jan 11)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Maxim Kostioukov (Jan 12)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Rapaille Maxime (Jan 12)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Bergert, David (Jan 13)
- RE: Pre-Scanning for Marketing Ed Hudson (Jan 10)