Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE)
From: "Utz, Ralph" <rutz () realtime-it com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:24:06 -0500
" Either way if you are going to criticize things in public you should know what you are talking about or you will just point out to everyone that you don't know the industry as well as you think." I challenge you to take your own advice. As you say, the CISSP is a general security credential. It does NOT show a mastery of all aspects of security as you say. Yes, I understand that a CISSP can tell me that the glass encasing my server room is too thin, but you go way too far out on a limb by saying that one certification makes you a master of all aspects of security. Are you a CISSP? Can you configure multiple vendor's firewall products to allow for 30 remote sites and 150 roaming salesmen? Can you then configure multiple vendor's IDS/IPS products to provide enhanced security to your customer's network? How well are you at incidence response on a HP-Unix box? When you catch malicious software on your honeypot, can you reverse it to determine it's function and take proper action at your routers/firewalls/IDS/IPS to prevent it's propagation in future? How's about configuring that customers wireless network for 802.1x and smart cards? I can go on and on, but my point is this. Are there people with the CISSP certification that are capable of doing these things? Yes. Are they the majority? No. The CISSP does not as you say "show mastery of all aspects of security" -----Original Message----- From: David Cross [mailto:davidcross () Post-N-Track com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 3:38 PM To: Robert E. Lee Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) Since you believe that a CISSP can be passed with no experience certainly you would also be aware that it has a practical experience requirement of 6 years of security work prior to being eligible for the test. It also requires that another CISSP vouch for your experience. It also requires that you show proof (yes actual proof) of industry experience for every year after you pass the test to the tune of several hundred hours of training and volunteer work (assuming you can pass the test it with a score greater than 70% of the applicants scores). It requires an ongoing credit-based system where you have to have served on industry boards, done volunteer work, written articles, published books and a number of other things. If you are lucky enough to pass all these requirements and when audit time rolls around and it's discovered that you didn't have the 6 years experience or you didn't really do all you said you did then you lose your credential and can never re-apply. Sure maybe you know someone who's taken a course and gone and passed the test but I bet you didn't know that many of them have not received their credential due to the lack of a credentialed CISSP to vouch for them or due to lack of actual ongoing experience to add to their credential after the fact. The CISSP credential is not a networking credential. It is a general security credential showing mastery of all aspects of security, not an in-depth knowledge of one. A CISSP would be expected to serve in an advisory or audit capacity and not in a network engineer capacity. The CISSP program also has specific knowledge area credential programs specific to application security among other things which apply to specific jobs. If a CISSP with no experience is applying for a networking job then shame on them. If you hire a CISSP for a networking job when they have no specific networking experience then shame on you. Credentials can only be looked at to strengthen the credibility of a person's resume, not to create credibility where this is no experience. Either way if you are going to criticize things in public you should know what you are talking about or you will just point out to everyone that you don't know the industry as well as you think. David -----Original Message----- From: Robert E. Lee [mailto:robert () dyadsecurity com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:40 AM To: shreyas () technitium com Cc: shreyasonline () yahoo com; slamboy () gmail com; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) The "practical application" portion of the CISCO CCIE certification is why organizations can trust the CCIE job applicant can serve a useful cisco networking function in their organization. Any certification that fails to measure the candidates actual ability to perform a useful function in the subject of the certification is useless (ala CEH, CISSP, CISA, CISM, which can all be passed with 0 years of experience). To the best of my knowledge about the current infosec certs, ISECOM's OPST (www.opst.org) and OPSA (www.opsa.org) come the closest to fulfilling the the practical measurement requirement. For what it's worth, we would not consider hiring a candidate who advertised that they have a CEH certification. If you want to stand out in an interview, perform a useful function that your peers respect you for. Presenting your ideas at conferences or contributing to computer security research papers and projects will get you a lot more credibility in a job interview than "hacking stories" or "hacker certifications". There are a lot of projects to choose from. If none of them excite you, start your own. ;) Robert -- Robert E. Lee Chief Information Officer http://www.dyadsecurity.com phone: (949) 394-2033 fax : (949) 486-6601 email: robert () dyadsecurity com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy, or use this email for any purpose, and any review or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient or any retransmission without the written consent of the sender is expressly prohibited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE), (continued)
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) Syv Ritch (Jul 27)
- RE: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) Strand, John (Mission Systems) (Jul 29)
- RE: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) R. DuFresne (Jul 29)
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer v3.1 (FREEWARE) Pete Herzog (Jul 30)
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer ankur jindal (Jul 31)
- RE: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer Marc Munk (Jul 31)
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer Michal Merta (Jul 31)
- Re: Hacker Stories, Certs, vs Projects - Was Re: Technitium MAC Address Changer Nathan Sportsman (Jul 31)