Re: Is there a scam in Security Certifications

["Rick Van Luvender" <rvanluve () comcast net>]

I did take your advice and query Mr. Bavisi directly regarding your 
research. Below is his response.

As for Mr. Bavisi's statement that the language regarding "EC-Councuil 
Universty is licensed by the State of Wyoming under Wyo. Stat. 21-2-401 
through 21-2-407 and neither the Department of Education nor the Wyoming 
State Board of Education has
accredited or endorsed any course of study offered by EC-Council University" 
being a statutory requirement, with a single google search I found the 
following information:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/titles/title21/c02a04.htm

ARTICLE 4

PRIVATE SCHOOL LICENSING

21-2-401.  License required; state board of education to administer and set 
minimum standards; in-state office required; on‑site inspections by state 
department.

(v)  A copy of the enrollment agreement, contract or other document which 
acknowledges the enrollment of each student which is executed by each 
student at the time of enrollment or paying tuition fees other than 
applications fees.  The agreement, contract or other document shall be made 
available at the time of the on-site inspection required under W.S. 
21‑2‑401(d) and shall contain the following statement:
"I understand that (name of institution) is licensed by the Wyoming 
department of education in accordance with W.S. 21‑2‑401 through 21‑2‑407 
and that neither the department of education nor the Wyoming state board of 
education has accredited or endorsed any course of study being offered by 
(name of institution)."

From: Jay Bavisi
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:20 AM
To:
Cc:
Subject: EC-Council

The post amazes me.

Anyway, I am of the opinion that anyone can hide behind the internet and 
fiere salvo and anyone else. I can claim that you are a martian too – that 
does not make it true :)

If there is a legitimate organization, then we have a legitimate answer for 
ALL of the non facts I see below.

EC-Council is called International Council , not American council.The whole 
world knows that we operate mainly from outside the US.The team in the US is 
based out of Laramie, Wyoming (where ECU licensed was granted).NY is a mere 
call answering service as a lot of people internationally do not know where 
Laramie is .

We ARE licensed by the state of Wyoming , and yes they are very hard on 
applicants, which is why we tool 2 years to form it! So obviously , this 
person has no idea what is a degree mill, an accredited University or a 
Licensed University!

The statement “From their university website "EC-Council University is 
licensed by the


> State of Wyoming under Wyo. Stat. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407 and neither 
> the Department of Education nor the Wyoming State Board of Education has 
> accredited or endorsed any course of study offered by EC-Council 
> University" is a STATUTORY requirement for us to comply with :)



The CNDA AND CEH are the same for now as we are told that the government 
hates the word HACKER. As such, we are testing this and if it is true, we 
intend to structure it’s future along the needs of government agencies. This 
is an open fact told to all ATC’s.

As for the members being fictitious – well , just check out the Hacker 
Halted pictures and news clippings  and form your own opinion.

If you like, you may post this back but I think it will be a pure time 
waster. Just type hate Microsoft on Google and see what you get :)

The fact is , the more successful you get, the more negative attention you 
attract.

Jay Bavisi
EC-Council

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "xelerated" <xelerated () gmail com>
To: <adich71 () yahoo com>
Cc: <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Is there a scam in Security Certifications


> Good research.... alarming to say the least.
>
> I have a CEH cert. now im bummed.
>
> But I also took the class. I did like the class, and it did have some
> value for me.
> I dont regret taking it at all. It filled in a few gaps that I had.
>
> Makes me wonder about going after any others though.
>
>
>
> On 28 May 2006 05:56:45 -0000, adich71 () yahoo com <adich71 () yahoo com> 
> wrote:
> > I came across these posts recently at a forum
> >
> >
> > There is more hype than substance in EC-Council.
> >
> >
> > Check this link 
> > https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/CorpDetails.aspx?CorpID=429981
> >
> >
> > EC-Council or International Council of ECommerce Consultants is a Nevada 
> > incorporated company and has NO office in New York as they claim. Pay 
> > them a visit and there is absolutely NOTHING there. Any enquiry called is 
> > always met with one response - please email. Try checking their claims 
> > before you invest in their products
> >
> >
> > EC-Council had announced an university earlier this year at Wyoming. They 
> > claim the certifications would get credits for their masters program. Its 
> > a diploma paper mill at best that will have its license revoked sooner or 
> > later as per the legislature revoking all unaccredited programs. Check 
> > this link  http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2006/Digest/SF0069.htm
> >
> >
> > From their university website "EC-Council University is licensed by the 
> > State of Wyoming under Wyo. Stat. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407 and neither 
> > the Department of Education nor the Wyoming State Board of Education has 
> > accredited or endorsed any course of study offered by EC-Council 
> > University"
> >
> >
> > If you check their members list as well, you will realize that most of 
> > them are ficticious or hardly involved. Renaming the only program they 
> > sell is not going to fool the government for long I guess.
> >
> >
> > Check this link http://www.eccouncil.org/cnda.htm and compare it with 
> > http://www.eccouncil.org/CEH.htm - Its the same thing. What is the value 
> > for existing CEH if they are going to certify some of the candidates as 
> > CNDA?
> >
> >
> > Everything is the same. There is no alteration. Its not just money 
> > here... If some of us are going to be CEH and some CNDA, wont one destroy 
> > the value of the other? They are out to squeeze every last drop of money 
> > they can - think about it... To do LPT, you must have attended training. 
> > Check their website http://eccouncil.org/lpt/LPT-Course-Outline.htm
> >
> >
> > Look at the cost - 2500 USD and see what you get in return
> >
> >
> > Plaque with your name on it
> >
> > LPT License card
> >
> > Resource CD-ROMS
> >
> > LPT T-shirts
> >
> > LPT caps
> >
> > LPT Certificate
> >
> > LPT Lapel Pin
> >
> > Membership ID
> >
> >
> > The million dollar question - license for what???
> >
> >
> >
> > Why dont we go to archive.org to the wayback machine (as shown in CEH 
> > course) and look at EC-Council's site. ECSA / ECSP/ ECAD / LPT / etc have 
> > been announced more than a year ago. Why are there no certifications 
> > coming out yet?
> >
> >
> > The funniest part is that nobody else claims LPT is prestigious - nor is 
> > there an industry demand or recognition. LPT will grant you the license 
> > (to do what???). Please mail them and ask what the license stands for?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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This List Sponsored by: Cenzic

Concerned about Web Application Security? 
Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's 
Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, 
you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the 
most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration 
testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a 
managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software 
(Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can 
help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php 
And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your 
results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details.
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