Penetration Testing mailing list archives
Re: CEH Books
From: "Peter Manis" <manis () digital39 com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:09:57 -0400
My real interest in obtaining the CEH is for personal validation that I know the things that the security world says I should know to do that job, the basics that is. Some say it is a joke, and maybe it is, but being new to security there is a lot to soak in. I don't know I guess it just seems like a good starting point for the other stuff. The OSCP course is awesome, and I have learned how to find buffer overflows, arp spoofing and metasploit, but there aren't explanations as to why you would use one nmap switch over another like in the CEH videos I watched. Obviously if the training doesn't tell me I need to look it up myself, that part is a no brainer, the hard thing is what I need to be looking up, what do I need to know that isn't in the video I am watching or the article I am reading. With so many tools and possible ways to gain access to a system I am looking at certifications as a guide to what I need to know. Either that or a need to find a mentor, who wants to be my yoda? In the videos I watched for the CEH the exam came across as a book smarts exam, where memorizing a man page is going to do more for you (in regards to the exam) than hands on experience. So I can see for security professionals it would be somewhat boring as a lot of the things you would learn earlier in your career. On 8/28/07, xelerated <xelerated () gmail com> wrote:
I have taken the CEH, CISSP and OPST I have to say that the OPST was by far the most valuable to expanding or enhancing my skillset. Its hands on, you cant memorize the answers, you know it or you dont. The CISSP was an employer requirement and in studying for it I did learn mostly about risk based audits. But as we know risk is not security. The CEH while I thought it was cool (this was some years ago, v3) Im almost ashamed to say I have it. The people that think its cool are not really the type of people i'd want to work for. Its a fast track to being a script kiddie. Just my 2 cents. Chris On 8/27/07, Peter Manis <manis () digital39 com> wrote:Thanks Michelle, Before starting the OSCP course I my ability to perform many of the tasks in penetration tests was very limited. The OSCP course, for me, has a great method of presentation for learning, but not elementary enough that someone with experience might get bored (can't really say though). For example in the buffer overflow section he goes over writing overflows and really gets into the nitty gritty with debuggers, locating memory addresses. You see how to find the bug, write the overflow, and exploit the machine. He doesn't however go so basic that he explains endianness or actually explaining the background of buffer overflows it is up to you to research a number of topics. On top of the training you have access to a VPN lab (if you get the package) to test these tasks out. Just a note, the cost of the training is changing on the 1st of September and I can only assume it is increasing. Here is a demo of the training from the site.http://www.offensive-security.com/movies/01intro/01intro.htmlOn 8/27/07, Michelle Duff < mduff () tampabay rr com> wrote:Good luck with the job search, Peter - would love to hear how it turnsoutfor you. Thanks for the OSCP info -- I'd heard of it, but didn't know what the training was like - good to get the skinny on a course. I took the CEH course from InfoSec Institute - it was a bootcamp thing. Typical bootcamp mode of learning - quick & dirty. We did do capture the flag stuff which was lots of fun, but it alwayscameat the end of a 11 hour day of studies geared towards getting us to passtheCEH exam. Now I'm home playing w/ the VMware environment trying torecreatesimilar capture the flag sessions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Manis" <manis () digital39 com> To: "Michelle Duff" < mduff () tampabay rr com> Cc: "Jay" <jay.tomas () infosecguru com>; <pen-test () securityfocus com> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: CEH BooksI agree as well, which is one reason I picked the OSCP before the CEH. To pass the OSCP I need to actually perform an attack on a machine. Of course this is not equal to real world experience, but as a start towards moving to security I felt HR may look at my resume and have interest in hiring me as an entry level tester because I have proven I can apply the knowledge I have learned vs just memorizing nmap switches and port numbers (not that the exam doesn't cover more). When I watched a few videos of CEH and read through the material on the exam it seemed the CEH was more like the first few classes at med school (from what I've heard), you have to memorize a bunch of names, functions, and instruments, but it isn't until later that you get to break out the tools and apply that knowledge. - Pete On 8/27/07, Michelle Duff <mduff () tampabay rr com> wrote:Excellent point, Jay. I agree whole-heartedly -- having gotten a number of certs in mycareer:CISSP, CCNP, MCSE and not enough hands-on led to my being viewed w/ general contempt by those who knew their stuff & didn't necessarily have the certs - I was a 'poser' - it stinks to be viewed that way. You must have the hands-on -- read, study, test -- all good. But youmustdo this stuff - touch it, do it, think it or you'll get the sametreatment Idid. -----Original Message----- From: Jay [mailto:jay.tomas () infosecguru com ] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:12 AM To: mduff () tampabay rr com; manis () digital39 com; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: CEH Books <rant> If you could learn to hack/assess from reading a book everyone would do it. Does a carpenter go get a book to learn to swing a hammer.?Nohegoes out and does it and probably smashes a few knuckles in theprocess.Themost important part of hacking/assessing is opening your mind see where it leads. There is a million ways to check for XSS, CSRF etc. You have to be determined and flexlible. Try things even though it shouldn't work. e.g I was looking for XSS in a input field. Tried all the normalstale"><script>alert('XSS')</script> type syntax. - nadda. Only after I padded it with 20 null characters (%00) on each side itdidpop. Reading should give you 'ideas' after that its up to you. CEH is a baseline like most certs. It says I sat through a week of training and then I took a multiple choice test. May mean I know my stuff andwantto documnt it to an extent. Or I May be good at tests and dont know sh@t about security.</rant> Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle Duff [mailto:mduff () tampabay rr com] To: manis () digital39 com,pen-test () securityfocus com Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:01:23 -0400 Subject: RE: CEH Books Peter - Sorry, I haven't read those books...when I can't find anyone who'sread astudy book, I'll check out the reviews on Amazon.com - granted, the reviewers may not always have a clue, but the more the book isreviewed Ican get an idea if it's what I need & if it's any good... I've hadgoodresults w/ this method. Amazon readers gave Michael Graves' Exam Prep book a good review:http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Ethical-Hacker-Exam-Publishing/dp/0789735318/ref=sr_1_1/102-9254239-5172111?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187930981&sr=1-1Amazon readers also gave Kimberly Graves' Review Guide good marks:http://www.amazon.com/CEH-Official-Certified-Ethical-Hacker/dp/0782144373/ref=sr_1_1/102-9254239-5172111?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187931127&sr=1-1Hopefully, someone here has read the books and can comment on them. Good luck! Michelle -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com[mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com ]On Behalf Of Peter Manis Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:09 PM To: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: CEH Books I found two CEH books on Alibris and I was wondering if anyone had experience with either. Certified Ethical Hacker: Exam 312-50 by Michael Gregg CEH: Official Certified Ethical Hacker Review Guide by Kimbery Graves Thanks, - Pete------------------------------------------------------------------------This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps NOW? Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast. Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today! http://www.cenzic.com/downloads------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps NOW? Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast. Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today! http://www.cenzic.com/downloads------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps NOW? Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast. Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today! http://www.cenzic.com/downloads------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------ This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps NOW? Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast. Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today! http://www.cenzic.com/downloads ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Re: CEH Books, (continued)
- Re: CEH Books UnODir (Aug 24)
- RE: CEH Books John Babio (Aug 24)
- Re: CEH Books Peter Manis (Aug 24)
- RE: CEH Books John Babio (Aug 24)
- RE: CEH Books Michelle Duff (Aug 24)
- RE: CEH Books Jay (Aug 28)
- RE: CEH Books Michelle Duff (Aug 28)
- Re: CEH Books Peter Manis (Aug 28)
- Re: CEH Books Michelle Duff (Aug 28)
- Re: CEH Books Peter Manis (Aug 28)
- Message not available
- Fwd: CEH Books xelerated (Aug 28)
- Message not available
- Re: CEH Books Peter Manis (Aug 29)
- RE: CEH Books Michelle Duff (Aug 28)
- Re: CEH Books UnODir (Aug 24)