FC: Google permits ads for spamware, rejects firearms-related ads

[Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>]

Searching for "bulk email" turns up an ad saying:
  BULK EMAIL SOFTWARE - Create And Deliver Mass-Personalized Emails
  www.ArialSoftware.com      Top-rated! CLICK HERE for a free downloadable
  working demo

And many others. Previous Politech message:

"Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers"
http://www.politechbot.com/p-03250.html

-Declan

*********

From: "Thomas Leavitt" <thomasleavitt () hotmail com>
To: declan () well com
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:21:55 -0800

This seems particularly bizarre, considering that they permit purchase of 
advertising by people marketing spam lists, email address harvesters (as 
evidenced when you type "bulk email" into their search engine) and other 
anti-social utilities and products (at least from an Internet user's 
perspective). I believe that, in the past, I've even seen spamming software 
being advertised, though a couple of casual searches of logical keywords 
don't bring up such at the moment.

Regards,
Thomas Leavitt

*********

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:01:53 -0500
From: rshoefelmeyer () netscape net (Ralph Hoefelmeyer)
To: declan () well com
Subject: Bowman's and Google

Declan,
Have the Google folks lost their politically correct minds?  No buying from 
Google advertisers for me, and Bowman's is now book marked for my buying needs.
Vote with one's wallet.
Ralph

*********

Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:07:55 +1100
From: Nathan Cochrane <ncochrane () theage fairfax com au>
Reply-To: ncochrane () theage fairfax com au
Organization: The Age newspaper
To: declan () well com
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers

Too bad if like to go camping, hiking, backpacking, mountaineering etc. 
Just a good thing that America is not renowned for its outdoor life or this 
would by laughable.

*********

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:57:55 -0500
To: declan () well com
From: Matthew Gaylor <freematt () coil com>
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food
 advertisers
Cc: politech () politechbot com, bowmans () bowmansbrigade com, tmz () paonline com

Hi Declan,

Here's an original message from Bowman's Brigade.  It should be noted 
however that while Google doesn't accept ads for firearms or gun parts they 
do accept some ads related to guns (gun books and gun magazines).  They do 
carry advertising to Rifle Magazine and to the book  "Bullet Stopping 
Power: Discuss Ammo Stopping Power with Evan Marshall and more! 
<http://www.evanmarshall.com> as examples.

Regards,  Matt-


At 12:49 AM -0700 3/11/02, Bowman's Brigade wrote:
> From: "Bowman's Brigade" <info () bowmansbrigade com>
> To: <freematt () coil com>
> Subject: Google's anti-gun policy discriminates against gun owners
> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:49:35 -0700
> X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
> Importance: High
>
> Hello,
>
> Perhaps you would be interested in this story.  Google has been uncloaked 
> as having an anti-gun discrimination policy by refusing ads from gun 
> related businesses.  My food ads and my night vision ads were refused by 
> Google - even though such ads are routinely allowed by Google from other 
> companies.  Their reason given? Because we also sell pistol barrels (not 
> guns).  I posted the entire story on my website here: 
> <http://www.bowmansbrigade.com/google1.htm>http://www.bowmansbrigade.c 
> om/google1.htm  You might want to read the links embedded in this page too 
> - there is a lot of outrage growing out there.
>
> There appears to be a massive grassroots effort underway to notify Google 
> that gun owners will not tolerate discrimination against them, but I could 
> use some help.  I'm already being overwhelmed with emails on this 
> issue.  I'm doing this alone, trying to get enough public pressure on 
> Google to reverse this policy.  So far, they seem to simply be ignoring 
> everyone.  They're liars too - but read the page above and make up your 
> own mind.
>
> Bowman's Brigade
> <http://www.bowmansbrigade.com>www.bowmansbrigade.com


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*********

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:28:07 -0500
From: mwmiller () columbus rr com
To: declan () well com, tmz () paonline com
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers

> From: Todd <tmz () paonline com>
> I've looked at the "Terms and Conditions" page for any reference to what
> might be prohibited.  All I see is:
>     "4. Spam and Other Prohibited Uses.
>     ... Google's Ad Policy ...
> There's no mention of weapons, guns, knives, or firearms.  They do
> reference "Google's Ad Policy" but there is no link to this document
> and a quick search, on Google, of course, produced nothing relevant.

The in-site searcher is available from the rather unobviously-named
"Jobs, Press, Cool Stuff..." link (which used to be named "All About
Google").  Anyway, here's the advertising policy:

http://www.google.com/ads/conditions.html

It doesn't mention guns specifically, but it *does* have the usual
weaselly we-don't-need-no-steenkin'-reason verbiage: "4. Right to Reject
Advertisement. All advertisements are subject to Google's approval.
Google reserves the right to reject any advertisement, Insertion Order,
or URL link, at any time, for any reason whatsoever..."
--
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller () columbus rr com
"I *love* when somebody finds something I say worthy of inclusion in a
.sig..."  -- somebody

*********

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:58:03 -0500
From: Todd <tmz () paonline com>
To: mwmiller () columbus rr com
Cc: declan () well com
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers

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Hi Matthew,

mwmiller () columbus rr com wrote:
> The in-site searcher is available from the rather unobviously-named
> "Jobs, Press, Cool Stuff..." link (which used to be named "All About
> Google").

You can also use site:google.com (or any other domain name) in the main
search text box.  I think that achieves the same thing.  Agreed that it's
less than obvious to find the in-site searcher.

> Anyway, here's the advertising policy:
>
> http://www.google.com/ads/conditions.html

I did look at that link, but I didn't take it to be the "Ad Policy" they
refer to in section 4 of the AdWords "Terms and Conditions," which is
found at:

    https://adwords.google.com/AdWords/main?cmd=TermsAndConditions
    (which annoyingly required cookies when I visited...)

The page at http://www.google.com/ads/conditions.html are the terms and
conditions for the "Premium Sponsorship Advertising" program.  I believe
they are separate.  See http://www.google.com/ads/ for the various ad
programs they have.

> It doesn't mention guns specifically, but it *does* have the usual
> weaselly we-don't-need-no-steenkin'-reason verbiage:

I'll say.  It's no wonder many people don't bother reading license
agreements and contracts with all this crap.  If they read them and bitched
about ridiculous language like this (or the NAI licenses prohibiting posting
reviews), perhaps we'd have better licenses and contracts.  As it is,
virtually no one - except lawyers and geeks - reads them and we end up
with crap licenses by default.

I've emailed adwords-support () google com to inquire about the "Ad Policy"
they refer to in the T & C.  They got right back to me with a standard we
"respect freedom... but reserve editorial discretion" message.  I replied to
try and get clarification about the ad policy and have not heard back yet.
They make the ad policy sound like a document in the T & C but I'm betting
it's more of a take-each-ad-as-they-come sort of thing.

Of course this is their right, but if they have some bias against someone
selling anything related to hunting or firearms I want to know so I can
take my searching and potential ad dollars elsewhere.

- --
Todd

It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    -- Alfred Adler

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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:20:27 -0600
From: Dave <2gds () raytheon com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bowmans () bowmansbrigade com
CC: declan () well com, politech () politechbot com, tmz () paonline com,
        Zuni <michael.zuniga () gsa gov>
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food


Hello there Bowmans:

I thought I'd give some quick unsolicited layman
perspective between lunchtime chicken strips here :-)

WRT the freedom of speech issue, this is enough for many of
the people I know (people who tend to vote w/ their dollars)
to avoid merchants, including advertising or search engines
, who don't respect and defend the Constitution of our own
country.  Pity, but as G. Carlin said, we get a free ticket
to the freak show at birth.

Also WRT google in general, I have noticed very poor relevancy
with the returns of their searches starting in the not too
distant past?  I don't know how or why, though I have some
hunches having to do with multiplicative factors that are
linear functions of $??  Just a guess.  It is a shame we can't
find a good way for companies like google to make a dime and
preserve the objectivity, integrity of their algorithms.  Particularly
since google has worked to utilized GNU and Open Source
software technologies in their business- this has sent a message to
many of us, perhaps wrongly, that Google shares some of the
libertarian principles identified in the Free Software Foundations
charter and activities.  Such is life..  Define objectivity
and integrity of a search algorithm?  Others have debated this
I imagine.

I won't quite give up on Google yet.  This is a mistake I
imagine will be fixed quickly.

Finally, with respect to advertising, remember that
there are still good ways to get at good netizens

o word of mouth (I'm serious.. I get URLS and recommendations
  from people all the time..)
o e-mail distribution lists (for which people opt in
  to, and which allow discreet plugs - even in the form
  of signatures, which is not to be confused with spam, or
   flashing images, etc.. - these are offensive and the
   quickest way to turn people off)
o being an active member in programs / initiatives,
  communities (online or other) which work to positively
  affect our environment
o publishing articles, participating in new groups,
  educating, etc..

These are, in my mind, still the best forms of advertising there are...

I will now visit bowman's :-)  Also, this might be an excellent
point in space and time for others to do the same.

regards,
dave

*********

From: Frank Ney <n4zhg () icqmail com>
To: declan () well com
Subject: Re: FC: Google refuses business from gun, knife, bulk food advertisers
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:09:52 -0500
Organization: Darwin Prevention Society - We keep evolution from happening.
Reply-To: croaker () barkingmad org

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:39 -0500, Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
wrote:

>[Google confirmed to me that the facts as laid out below are true. They
>understand that the Bowman's Brigade business does NOT sell firearms, but
>they feel that the bulk food, survival gear, and replacement parts (like
>weapon sights) are close enough to firearm sales to, ah, trigger that
>prohibition. --Declan]

After reading that article, I went to google one last time and discovered
that despite what they said in their response, they are in fact running a
sponsored link for absoluteknives.com, who sells S.O.G. SEAL knives, neck
knives, and such. Hypocrisy ranks right up there with anti-gunnery.


Frank Ney  N4ZHG  WV/EMT-B  LPWV  NRA(L) ProvNRA GOA CCRKBA JPFO
--
Black Friday - The name given to October 26th, 2001, the day George W.
Bush signed the "USA PATRIOT Act" which marked the end of the United
States as a democratic republic, and its emergence as a police state.
The only senator to oppose the bill was Russ Feingold, a Wisconsin
senator, who was assassinated 2 years later by agents of the Homeland
Security Office for "seditious criticism of the State."
               - Encylopedia Britannica, 2162 CE edition
Just Say No to Gestapo Tactics http://reduce.to/justsayno/
Abuses by the BATF  http://www.hamnet.net/~n4zhg/batfabus.html


*********




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