Snort mailing list archives

Re: Snort-users digest, Vol 1 #1349 - 12 msgs


From: Suke Li <lisuke () infosec cs pku edu cn>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:52:34 +0800

snort-users-request,

RSA  is an algorithm based on a one-way direction of big number facterization funtion.
There is no way for anyone who can use a public key to get the private key.
SSL is based on RSA algrorithm. So, no IDS can decrypt the encrypted sessions in polynomial
time. If the network traffic is heaven, how can you decrypt the sessions? That is impossible.


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Encrypted sessions (Mike Shaw)
  2. Re: Encrypted sessions (Chr. v. Stuckrad)
  3. Re: Encrypted sessions (Erek Adams)
  4. Strange effect splitting 'alert' to 'redalert' + 'logalert' (Chr. v. Stuckrad)
  5. Re: Encrypted sessions (Jason Haar)
  6. RE: Encrypted sessions (Michael Aylor)
  7. Encrypted sessions (Michael Scheidell)
  8. Snort & ACID: WAS ([Snort-users] Encrypted sessions) (Ronneil Camara)
  9. Snort 1.8 and RH 7.1 (D&D Jordan)
 10. ARIS sensor 1.6 Beta RPM (Jensenne Roculan)
 11. Next Update to spp_portscan (Stephen Shepherd)
 12. mysql on win32 (Ali Zaree)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:25:02 -0600
To: "Ronneil Camara" <ronneilc () remingtonltd com>,
<snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
From: Mike Shaw <mshaw () wwisp com>
Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions

No network based IDS is going to be able to see a signature in an encrypted
session of any kind.  That goes for Snort or any commercial network
IDS.  If they could see encrypted traffic, so could any eavesdropper.

The vendor may be trying to sell you a host based IDS/integrity checker, in
which case it's apples and oranges.  Host based and network based IDS are
two different animals, and should be used to compliment not replace each other.

The vendor could also be conveniently omitting that their own NIDS doesn't
work with encrypted traffic.  The ol' Jedi mind trick.

-Mike

At 02:53 PM 11/27/2001 -0600, Ronneil Camara wrote:
How does snort deal with encrypted communication. Let say, I would to
monitor https connection to my web server or we've got an encrypted
connection to other mail server. Would snort know about those attacks?

This is what the big vendor company mentioned to me about snort's
weakness.

Thanks.

Neil

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--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:25:31 +0100
From: "Chr. v. Stuckrad" <stucki () math fu-berlin de>
To: Erek Adams <erek () theadamsfamily net>
Cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions
Reply-To: stucki () math fu-berlin de

On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:13:57PM -0800, Erek Adams wrote:
*sigh*  I just love marketing/sales techno-babble.  Not!
*grin* there is another problem with 'encryption':
I've seen a thing like an IRC-Bot used as DDOS Command-Center
and communicating via an encrypted stream to the hacked host...

No chance to see anything, except if the key is already known.

If it's encrypted traffic, to examine the traffic you would have to decode it.
But how?  If for example you would want to look for specific bad traffic
(we had that with ssh1) and you want to find logins via ssh, you only
get the fact, that there IS a connection, no contents (else ssh would be
useless anyway).

Stucki

--
Christoph von Stuckrad       * *  | nickname  | <stucki () math fu-berlin de> \
Freie Universitaet Berlin    |/_* | 'stucki'  | Tel(days):+49 30 838-75 459 |
Fachbereich Mathematik, EDV  |\ * | if online | Tel(else):+49 30 77 39 6600 |
Arnimallee 2-6/14195 Berlin  * *  | on IRCnet | Fax(alle):+49 30 838-75454 /


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:30:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Erek Adams <erek () theadamsfamily net>
To: "Chr. v. Stuckrad" <stucki () math fu-berlin de>
cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Chr. v. Stuckrad wrote:

*grin* there is another problem with 'encryption':
I've seen a thing like an IRC-Bot used as DDOS Command-Center
and communicating via an encrypted stream to the hacked host...

No chance to see anything, except if the key is already known.

Right!  But I was (pardon the pun) 'keying off' on the fact it was 'our
mailservers/webservers'.  I made the assumption that they had they keys.  :)

But how?  If for example you would want to look for specific bad traffic
(we had that with ssh1) and you want to find logins via ssh, you only
get the fact, that there IS a connection, no contents (else ssh would be
useless anyway).

Right again!  If the 3l33t hax0r uses a l33t algorithm like, oh, ROTT13, then
you've got a bit of a chance.   :)  But if it's something akin to ssh--Good
luck.

-----
Erek Adams
Nifty-Type-Guy
TheAdamsFamily.Net



--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:43:22 +0100
From: "Chr. v. Stuckrad" <stucki () math fu-berlin de>
To: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Reply-To: stucki () math fu-berlin de
Subject: [Snort-users] Strange effect splitting 'alert' to 'redalert' + 'logalert'

Hi!

May be I did something which is not meant to be used this way(?):

I wanted to have two levels of alerts and logs, so I decided
to use the user-dfined 'ruletype's like:
------------------------------- snip ----------------------------
ruletype logalert
{
  type alert
  output alert_syslog: LOG_LOCAL3 LOG_WARNING
  output alert_fast: /var/log/snort/logalert
  output log_tcpdump: /var/log/snort/snort.log.dump
}
------------------------------- snip ----------------------------
The 'redalert' is similar but has an higher log facility
and different filenames.

Then I decided which rule (originally 'alert') will become 'redalert'
or 'logalert', and if I did it correctly only those two kinds of rule
do exist now.

HERE Snort is:  Version 1.8.3 (Build 87)
has flexresponse but not yet databases and uses syslog so far.
runs on LINUX (SuSE-7.2) on a routers mirror-port.

What goes RIGHT is: syslog, alert_fast
What goes WRONG is: output_tcpdup

Is there a way to append instead of write from beginning of the file
when snort restarts? (It seems to always begin from empty file).

Somehow it seems as if not *every* alerting packet(contents) is logged,
I often do not find a packet in those files, even if alert_fast did tell
me it's from and to addresses...

And besides this, portscans are logged to some other/own default file,
which is acceptable so far :-)

Any Ideas what I missed from 'snort.pdf' (may be it does nat explain
something as of version *.3 and I'd rather read sources?)

Thanks a lot,      Stucki

--
Christoph von Stuckrad       * *  | nickname  | <stucki () math fu-berlin de> \
Freie Universitaet Berlin    |/_* | 'stucki'  | Tel(days):+49 30 838-75 459 |
Fachbereich Mathematik, EDV  |\ * | if online | Tel(else):+49 30 77 39 6600 |
Arnimallee 2-6/14195 Berlin  * *  | on IRCnet | Fax(alle):+49 30 838-75454 /


--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:55:41 +1300
From: Jason Haar <Jason.Haar () trimble co nz>
To: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions
Organization: Trimble Navigation New Zealand Ltd.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:13:57PM -0800, Erek Adams wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Ronneil Camara wrote:

How does snort deal with encrypted communication. Let say, I would to
monitor https connection to my web server or we've got an encrypted
connection to other mail server. Would snort know about those attacks?

Anyone else got a better way to play with encryption?  I'm looking for new
ideas!

Yup - don't encrypt it :-)

Seriously, encryption is too hard to do on the fly - so MOVE THE PROBLEM.
Terminate your SSL sessions on a reverse proxy (either commercial or
Squid-2.5 for instance), and then it'll talk HTTP to the backend Web servers.

Not only can your IDS detect attacks again, but you've moved an expensive
task off your Web servers onto something specifically installed to do SSL...


--
Cheers

Jason Haar

Information Security Manager
Trimble Navigation Ltd.
Phone: +64 3 9635 377 Fax: +64 3 9635 417


--__--__--

Message: 6
From: Michael Aylor <maylor () swbanktx com>
To: 'Erek Adams' <erek () theadamsfamily net>, "Chr. v. Stuckrad"
       <stucki () math fu-berlin de>
Cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Subject: RE: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:25:50 -0600

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That would be neat, if there was a way of telling snort about the
existance of a private RSA key that it had read access to, so it could
reverse engineer the public key exchange it was watching...am I
oversimplifying?  My understanding was that, if you had the private key
(and presumably the password used to encrypt it), then you'd be able to
decode any traffic using that key.  Am I incorrect?


Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Erek Adams [mailto:erek () theadamsfamily net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 3:31 PM
To: Chr. v. Stuckrad
Cc: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Subject: Re: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions


On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Chr. v. Stuckrad wrote:

*grin* there is another problem with 'encryption':
I've seen a thing like an IRC-Bot used as DDOS Command-Center
and communicating via an encrypted stream to the hacked host...

No chance to see anything, except if the key is already known.

Right!  But I was (pardon the pun) 'keying off' on the fact it was 'our
mailservers/webservers'.  I made the assumption that they had they keys.
:)

But how?  If for example you would want to look for specific bad
traffic
(we had that with ssh1) and you want to find logins via ssh, you only
get the fact, that there IS a connection, no contents (else ssh would
be
useless anyway).

Right again!  If the 3l33t hax0r uses a l33t algorithm like, oh, ROTT13,
then
you've got a bit of a chance.   :)  But if it's something akin to
ssh--Good
luck.

-----
Erek Adams
Nifty-Type-Guy
TheAdamsFamily.Net


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Message: 7
From: "Michael Scheidell" <scheidell () fdma com>
To: <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
Cc: <ronneilc () remingtonltd com>
Subject: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:49:55 -0500
Organization: Florida Datamation, Inc.

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:53:22 -0600
From: "Ronneil Camara" <ronneilc () remingtonltd com>
To: <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
Subject: [Snort-users] Encrypted sessions

How does snort deal with encrypted communication. Let say, I would to
monitor https connection to my web server or we've got an encrypted
connection to other mail server. Would snort know about those attacks?

This is what the big vendor company mentioned to me about snort's
weakness.

And the 'big vendor' can decrypt encrypted sessions? or are they just
blowing smoke?
No, snort will not decrypt ssh or ssl sessions and I doubt 'big vendor' can
either.





--__--__--

Message: 8
Subject: Snort & ACID: WAS ([Snort-users] Encrypted sessions)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:17:48 -0600
From: "Ronneil Camara" <ronneilc () remingtonltd com>
To: <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>

Thank you very much for all the responses. It was really helpful to me.
Anyways, are there any issues with versions of Snort and ACID? I
actually would like to try it tonight. Aside from demarc, are there any
other good console web interfaces for snort?

Thanks.

Neil


--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "D&D Jordan" <info () dndjordan com>
To: <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:35:35 -0800
Subject: [Snort-users] Snort 1.8 and RH 7.1

Greetings,
I recently changed from my normal course of waiting for either source rpms
or pre complied rpms to use version 1.8.2
I d/l the i386 rpm from snort.org d/l page and while everything installed
okay, I have one error that is keeping snortd from loading.

This is the problem. When I run "/etc/rc.d/init.d/snortd start"
I get this "Starting snort: execvp: No such file or directory    [FAILED]"

Can anyone tell me what this means?

Thanks,
Don Jordan



--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:43:54 -0700 (MST)
From: Jensenne Roculan <jroculan () securityfocus com>
To: <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
Subject: [Snort-users] ARIS sensor 1.6 Beta RPM

Hi there,

For those who may be interested, SecurityFocus has released the ARIS
sensor RPM which includes Snort 1.8.2, the default ruleset, and the newly
released ARIS extractor 1.6.  It is built on RedHat Linux 7.1 but should
install properly on most other Linux distributions.  It is available at:

ARIS sensor 1.6 Beta
http://aris.securityfocus.com/Download.asp

To install this RPM, run :

# rpm --install aris-sensor-1.6-beta.i386.rpm

This will install the included programs in /usr/local/aris-sensor. Next,
run the "install.pl" script within the aris-sensor directory to configure
ARIS extractor to automatically upload your data.

If you installed the previous version of the RPM, you must uninstall it,
by running the following commands:

# /etc/rc.d/init.d/snort stop
# rpm --erase aris-sensor-1.0-beta

The standalone version of ARIS extractor is also available at the URL
above.

Users of ARIS extractor 1.6 can now enable the automatic generation of
daily summary reports. These reports, sent by email, give you an overview
of the activity seen by your IDS over the previous 24 hour period. For an
example of this report, see the following:

http://aris.securityfocus.com/HELP/dailysummarysetup.htm

Any questions or comments can be directed to aris-bugs () securityfocus com

Thanks for your time.

Cheers,

Jensenne Roculan
SecurityFocus - http://www.securityfocus.com
ARIS - http://aris.securityfocus.com
(403) 213-3939 ext. 229






--__--__--

Message: 11
Reply-To: <drew600_1999 () yahoo com>
From: "Stephen Shepherd" <drew600_1999 () yahoo com>
To: "Snort Users List \(E-mail\)" <snort-users () lists sourceforge net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Snort-users] Next Update to spp_portscan

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1777A.9BBACA70
Content-Type: text/plain;
      charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Does anyone know when we might see and update to spp_portscan that will log
into the snort DB in a structured format.� I poked around on the snort web
site but I did not see any new news.
�
�Now that I have ACID up and running I am loving life but I sure would like
to be able to mine the portscan data more effectively.� The
current�unstructured logging is better than nothing but I want more... :-)�
�
�

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1777A.9BBACA70
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D873413102-28112001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does =
anyone know=20
when we might see and update to spp_portscan that will log into the =
snort DB in=20
a structured format.&nbsp; I poked around on the snort web site but I =
did not=20
see any new news.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D873413102-28112001><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D873413102-28112001><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;Now that I=20
have ACID up and running I am loving life but I sure would like to be =
able to=20
mine the portscan data more effectively.&nbsp; The =
current&nbsp;unstructured=20
logging is better than nothing but I want more... :-)&nbsp; =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D873413102-28112001><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D873413102-28112001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1777A.9BBACA70--


_________________________________________________________
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--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Ali Zaree" <a_zaree () graffiti net>
To: snort-users () lists sourceforge net
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:56:46 +0800
Subject: [Snort-users] mysql on win32

I just joined the mailing list, so I hope this question hasn't been asked/answered before. I looked through the 
archive and couldn't find anything about it:

Is there a mysql version of snort 1.8.2 for Windows?  I've got it working great for linux clients but when try the 
binary from the snort download page on a windows box I get:

<snip>
database: compiled support for ( )
database: configured to use mysql
database: mysql support is not compiled in this copy
....
Fatal Error, Quitting..


Thnx in advance,

Ali Zaree

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End of Snort-users Digest

                    致
礼!

            Suke Li
            lisuke () infosec cs pku edu cn


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