WebApp Sec mailing list archives
RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web
From: "James Pujals" <james.pujals () sterlingpayment com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:59:27 -0400
"How could your DNA (I would waver on this one
since I heard somewhere that twins could have the same DNA), fingerprint, retinal scan, etc, not be unique to you and only you? Nor am I buying the movie version of someone getting their finger cut off by a thief for accessing their bank account or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say." I see I didn't explain myself properly. My DNA, fingerprint, or retinal scan is perfectly useless for authentication unless there is a "known" baseline copy stored by the authenticating system to compare it to. That means that my DNA, fingerprint, or retinal scan does not prove who *I am* as an individual, but it proves that I am whomever your system associates with its stored credentials, be it a specific customer, citizen, employee, or pet. This makes the security of the registration process a highly critical point for the integrity of the system. And since part of the topic at hand is remote enrollment for online web applications, this dependence on the "infallibility" of biometrics is dangerous. -dZ. ________________________________ From: Tim [mailto:pand0ra.usa () gmail com] Sent: Fri 06/30/2006 20:04 To: James Pujals Cc: Andrew van der Stock; Webappsec Mail List Subject: Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web The 3 factors of authentication are: Something you have (i.e. a token, card, etc) Something you know (i.e. a password) or Something you are (i.e. a fingerprint, DNA, etc) "But even when biometric authentication "works", it still does not prove my _identity_, it just proves that I am who *I said* I am, which is another thing entirely;" Umm... I don't follow. How could your DNA (I would waver on this one since I heard somewhere that twins could have the same DNA), fingerprint, retinal scan, etc, not be unique to you and only you? Nor am I buying the movie version of someone getting their finger cut off by a thief for accessing their bank account or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. Currently, with ID theft you don't see bad guys walking up to people on the street, point a gun at them and demand their SSN, or credit cards do you? Based on history, the tendency is to subvert the technology, not attack people (in regards to personal information). Also, from what some vendors have told me is that the technology requires blood pressure in order to work correctly (but I have read that it can be subverted by silly putty). Remember I am not saying that the technology is perfect, I am saying the concept of biometrics is what can valdate someones identity because it is something of us. On 6/30/06, James Pujals <james.pujals () sterlingpayment com> wrote:
Hello: But even when biometric authentication "works", it still does not prove my _identity_, it just proves that I am who *I said* I am, which is another thing entirely; and some might say is its most obvious point of failure. What's worse, as opposed to other 2-factor authentication methods (e.g. something I have, something I know), the "something I have" with biometrics, or as you say the "something I am" is not easily or practically replaceable if by chance it gets subverted. And thus, given its inherent value and importance to its owner (I'm pretty sure we all want to keep all our fingers, eyes, etc.), the more value placed on the payload it guards (i.e. bank account, medical records, credit history, etc.), the higher the risk increases for its owner; as not only can someone clean up your savings account, but they will necessarily have to kill, maim, or otherwise molest of you in the process. -dZ. ________________________________ From: Tim [mailto:pand0ra.usa () gmail com] Sent: Fri 06/30/2006 11:45 To: Andrew van der Stock Cc: Webappsec Mail List Subject: Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web What I was trying to say is that you can only authenticate someone through biometrics because it is something that they are. I do not dispute that technology can be subverted or that people can be manipulated. What I am trying to say is that a label (name, ssn) cannot be trusted, especially nowadays. I feel the same in that regristration would have to be done in person but again that is impractical. Again, I am not saying that the current biometrics technology is an adequate solution. Just that the concept of biometrics is the only way to validate someone's identity. You seem to be very familiar with biometrics, can you provide some examples of products that you have experience with that you would consider to be a scam and what ones (regardless of expense) are adequate?
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Current thread:
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Gaydosh, Adam (Jul 02)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Glenn.Everhart (Jul 03)
- Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Andrew van der Stock (Jul 03)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Lyal Collins (Jul 03)
- Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Andrew van der Stock (Jul 03)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Popowycz, Alex (Jul 03)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Popowycz, Alex (Jul 05)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Lyal Collins (Jul 05)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web James Pujals (Jul 05)
- RE: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web PPowenski (Jul 06)
- Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web mikeiscool (Jul 07)
- Re: Two-Factor Authentication on the Web Devdas Bhagat (Jul 17)