Firewall Wizards mailing list archives
Re: Recent Attacks
From: "Marcus J. Ranum" <mjr () nfr net>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:40:23 -0500
Ryan Russell wrote:
OK then, what's fair damages for writing Internet Scanner, an evil haxor tool? How about releasing the "firewall" toolkit full of holes? $100M each?
Ryan, The situation is this: you're either part of the problem, or you're part of the solution. People can build tools that are part of the problem, or they're part of the solution. I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to stand up and throw rocks at people who produce tools in good faith. It's simply ridiculous to try to draw a parallel between someone who writes a firewall (even a buggy one!) and someone who writes a tool that, pure and simple, is designed for nothing but causing mayhem. I certainly hope that, as a security professional, your professional ethics are better than that!! There's always going to be a grey area in which legitimate tools can be abused. This almost exactly aligns with the gun debate - a long and tedious debate that I suggest we avoid in this list - but similarly to the gun debate, society at large (legally and through social pressure) defines what are "appropriate" tools and their appropriate uses. It is not appropriate for me to own heavy antitank weaponry; it is appropriate for me to own properly licensed hunting and target weapons. It is not appropriate for me to use those irresponsibly; it is appropriate for me to use them legally and carefully at a supervised range. If, for a second I cross the line into irresponsible use or inappropriate action, by threatening, endangering, or even merely making someone uncomfortable, I have exitted the grey area and entered into the wrong. This is a black and white issue, and police, judges, and juries, are quite capable of dealing with it. So it is with hackers. There's a grey area in hacking - tools that are good that can be used for evil, and a few tools that are designed for evil which can be repurposed for legitimate ends. My opinion is that society will cease shortly to tolerate that grey area - it's going to narrow down (the way it has with guns) sharply in the next few years. Apologists for computer crime, such as you appear to be, will not find your voices welcome in the debate for much longer. That's my prediction. You go stand over there with the guys who are part of the problem. I'm going to stand over here with the people who are sick of it, won't tolerate it, and are trying to be part of the solution. Regards, mjr.
Current thread:
- Re: Recent Attacks, (continued)
- Re: Recent Attacks Malcolm Holser (Feb 17)
- Re: Recent Attacks Brad Van Orden (Feb 17)
- Re: Recent Attacks Philip J. Koenig (Feb 17)
- Message not available
- Re: Recent Attacks David LeBlanc (Feb 17)
- Re: Recent Attacks Philip J. Koenig (Feb 17)
- Re: Recent Attacks Ryan Russell (Feb 19)
- Message not available
- Re: Recent Attacks David LeBlanc (Feb 19)
- Message not available
- Re: Recent Attacks David LeBlanc (Feb 19)
- Re: Recent Attacks Ryan Russell (Feb 19)
- Re: Recent Attacks Philip J. Koenig (Feb 23)
- Message not available
- Re: Recent Attacks Marcus J. Ranum (Feb 19)
- Re: Recent Attacks Darren Reed (Feb 20)
- Message not available
- Re: Recent Attacks Marcus J. Ranum (Feb 20)
- Re: Recent Attacks Ryan Russell (Feb 21)
- Re: Recent Attacks Ryan Russell (Feb 23)
- Re: Recent Attacks Marcus J. Ranum (Feb 20)
- RE: Recent Attacks Chris Crozier (Feb 21)
- Re: Recent Attacks Claudio Telmon (Feb 24)
- Re: Recent Attacks Ryan Russell (Feb 21)
- Re: Recent Attacks Darren Reed (Feb 21)
- Re: Recent Attacks Michael Cassidy (Feb 23)