Firewall Wizards mailing list archives
Re: The home user problem returns
From: "R. DuFresne" <dufresne () sysinfo com>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:09:06 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Mason Schmitt wrote:
Marcus J. Ranum wrote:ISPs have a completely different place in the security stack - your job is to carry goodness and badness;I agree that the ISP's place in the security stack is different than that of businesses and government. However, I don't think our job is to carry badness. As a major choke point between thousands (in our case) or millions (the big ones) of home users and the rest of the net, I think ISPs absolutely should be doing whatever possible to restrict badness on their networks. They have the visibility necessary to do the job and they have the means to at least offer some basic protection. The fact that ISPs are now seeing enough pressure (from customers, RBLs, and worm/bot load on their networks) that they are starting to react, is encouraging. Comcast, once the worlds greatest source of spam is now working toward a full outbound port 25 block and has just made available, to all of their customers, a McAfee software bundle that has an antivirus app and personal firewall. I don't think it's a great solution (probably marketing driven), but certainly far better than what they had before. as you point out, your endusers (who are idiots) will resent your attempts to make things better for them.I see my job as trying to provide as consistent and unencumbered an experience as possible for our customers. Right now, spam, bots, and #!$%ing spyware are getting in my way of doing that. I don't like the fact that at the onset of each new worm, that I still have to contact people and shut them down. I don't like the fact that customers phone complaining that our service is slow and when they bring their computer into our shop we find a massive spyware infestation (the current record btw is 5300). As a result, we are willing to try anything that is likely to gain us some ground. Right now one of the projects that we have that is working really well is having customers bring in their computer when they sign up. We give the PC a thorough enema and send it back out with free antivirus and antispyware, windows updates turned on and the XP firewall enabled. Twice a year we run a spring cleanup and a fall tune-up which again goes through the enema process for $29. We're fairly confident that this program is making a big dent in the number of really vulnerable systems out there. Our goal is to severely reduce the number of infections on our network so that our customers can have a consistent and hassle free experience on the net. I'd like to see all ISPs adopt that stance. Sorry. Just realised this looks a whole lot like a sales pitch... --
Mason, I do not think Marcus was beating up on you personally, and I don;t think anyone else here would or has either. You have a tough world to work from, that of a tech within an ISP. But the best that an ISP can do is perhaps limited, and since the corp industry is still unable to beat the problems that abound, and since gov sites both federal and state and local are still up to their collective necks in internet-do-do, any efforts from the ISP realms is welcomed though perhaps not to have too drmatic of an effect. But, if each and every ISP forced into their routers ingress as well as egress filtering, we;d have eleiminted a large number of attack vectors and issues with the anonymity that many rely upon for their nasty deeds.
As for the new value-adds of firewalls and spam filters offered by some ISP's they aren;t going to sell well even now. Afterall, what are folks seeking; a connection plain and simple and since education has not made them really aware of the pitfalls they face, why are they going to pay more for a service they don;t really seek let alone feel they need? There is afterall more serious concerns for their wallets in gas prices rising.... Now, if frewalls and spam filters were part of the base offering, folks might or might not notice or be concerned and still signon, though that's not a given either. Folks tends to in both the home user realm as well as the corporate realm do these silly "full installs" afterall, thinking if they do any less they are somhow limiting their capabilities.
By the way, Marcus, love yer 10 list! spreading it all about the place now. I had hesitated in replying to the user training side of the thread as folks tend to view me as a pessimist, rather then a realist.
ingress and egress is the strong begining move to make. Marcus has many tales to tell on how well that matter goes through the corp world, and has I'm sure only related a few of those tales here...
Thanks, Ron DuFresne- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
admin & senior security consultant: sysinfo.com http://sysinfo.com Key fingerprint = 9401 4B13 B918 164C 647A E838 B2DF AFCC 94B0 6629 ...We waste time looking for the perfect lover instead of creating the perfect love. -Tom Robbins <Still Life With Woodpecker> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDJdJVst+vzJSwZikRAvZmAJ9q7aAczxKWBA4K6ErX9ox8UnrsTQCcD/LX u04zsbiJWkrj8pKWYnnjkOs= =Yrsl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ firewall-wizards mailing list firewall-wizards () honor icsalabs com http://honor.icsalabs.com/mailman/listinfo/firewall-wizards
Current thread:
- Re: The home user problem returns, (continued)
- Re: The home user problem returns Jim Seymour (Sep 13)
- RE: The home user problem returns Tina Bird (Sep 14)
- RE: The home user problem returns Paul Melson (Sep 22)
- Message not available
- Re: The home user problem returns Mason Schmitt (Sep 12)
- RE: The home user problem returns Paul Melson (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Mason Schmitt (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Jim Seymour (Sep 13)
- RE: The home user problem returns Bill Royds (Sep 14)
- RE: The home user problem returns Jim Seymour (Sep 22)
- RE: The home user problem returns Brian Loe (Sep 22)
- Re: The home user problem returns R. DuFresne (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Mason Schmitt (Sep 13)
- RE: The home user problem returns Tina Bird (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Mason Schmitt (Sep 13)
- RE: The home user problem returns Tina Bird (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Mason Schmitt (Sep 14)
- Re: The home user problem returns Chris Blask (Sep 22)
- RE: The home user problem returns Sanford Reed (Sep 13)
- Re: The home user problem returns Elizabeth Zwicky (Sep 27)
- Re: The home user problem returns tbird (Sep 27)