RE: IDS is dead, etc

["Security Conscious" <mail () security-conscious com>]

Imho, a perfectly implemented firewall is one that optimally enforces
the access control policy of the organization.  Unfortunately many
companies access control policies require allowing insecure and/or
potentially vulnerable protocols into the network for e-commerce, office
productivity, etc.  I don't see this changing anytime soon.  

How does this relate to IDS is Dead?  When companies open themselves up
to risk, they should audit what they cannot control (prevent).  I look
at IDS as an extension of the audit function and when the SEC stops
requiring companies to audit their financial statements, I'll believe IT
can stop auditing their networks and systems.

Chris Petersen
President/CTO
Security Conscious, Inc.
(703) 873-4739 (direct)
(301) 523-1989 (mobile)
chris () security-conscious com
www.security-conscious.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wimer [mailto:scottw () cylant com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: Bennett Todd
> Cc: Barry Fitzgerald; Tom Arseneault; 'Mark Tinberg'; 'Paul 
> Schmehl'; focus-ids () securityfocus com
> Subject: Re: IDS is dead, etc
>
>
> Bennet,
>
> Here's the quote about perfecty implemented firewalls that I think is 
> germain.  Hopefully I'm not taking it out of context:
>       "A perfectly implemented firewall allows no protocols
>       through for which there are vulnerable implementations
>       inside. That means it's impossible to implement a
>       perfect firewall if you're going to allow Windows
>       users to have internet access."
>
> I may very well be putting words in your mouth (for which I 
> appologize) when I write about the silliness of expecting that any 
> protocol will be implemented vulnerability free -- on any platform.
>
> Bennett Todd wrote:
>
> > I've heard of one device that I can believe can alert on a 
> heretofore 
> > totally unknown exploit. Not all of 'em, of course, but 
> some. That's 
> > Mazu Networks's enforcer/profiler gizmos. I myself wouldn't 
> call 'em 
> > an IDS, I think they're something different, much more 
> valuable, and 
> > their IDS functionality is the smallest part of what 
> they're good at. 
> > To my tastes, their host classification and "what-if" modelling are 
> > the really hot capabilities. If they were as affordable as an IDS, 
> > then I think they'd help bolster your claim, but they really are 
> > something else and different.
>
> After a brief review of Mazu's Profiler and Enforcer docs, I'm 
> currious how it handles attacks that come in via encrypted means.
>
> I'm not convinced that a NIDS can be more than a network management 
> tool.  With the caveat for things like floods of various types.  From 
> what I've seen, to detect and respond to all categories of 
> exploits in 
> a timely manner requires some sort of defense mechanism implemnted at 
> the host.  This prejudice may come from the work we do on host based 
> IPS systems though.  But, it's the only way I've seen to 
> reliably stop 
> exploits whether they are previously known or not.
>
> Regards,
> scottwimer
> -- 
> Scott M. Wimer, CTO                      Cylant
> www.cylant.com                           121 Sweet Ave.
> v. (208) 883-4892                        Suite 123
> c. (208) 301-0370                        Moscow, ID 83843
> There is no Security without Control.
>
>
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 - Instantly Stop DoS/DDoS Attacks, Worms & Port Scans
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