Re New Trump Deportation Rules

["Dave Farber" <farber () gmail com>]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Evers Ridgely C." <rce () evers org>
> Date: February 22, 2017 at 7:15:19 PM EST
> To: Farber David <dave () farber net>
> Subject: Re: [IP] Re New Trump Deportation Rules
>
> Dave,
>
> I'm impressed by the breadth and depth of responses to this posting.  And encouraged.  Also, I appreciate your policy 
> of not picking sides; it's the only way we can actually participate in the Commons.
>
> In that spirit, I would ask Mr. Riley to document (pun intended) his assertions that, "We have a huge problem with 
> illegals, which has come with staggering costs born by taxpayers."  
>
> Both parts bear examination and, in my mind, refutation.
>
> Where I live, there are tens of thousands of probably-illegal immigrants.  As a society, we actually have fewer 
> "problems" with that group than we do with the population overall, because they are afraid to violate the law.  
>
> Moreover, these people pay state and federal payroll taxes, pay into Social Security (that they'll never see), and 
> pay sales taxes.  These, in the aggregate, are substantial.  The analysis I've seen suggests that the resources 
> (primarily healthcare and education, although the students are US citizens) they consume cost far less than the taxes 
> collected.  In fact, they avoid using healthcare because they are afraid it will expose them.
>
> As Moynihan said, one is entitled to one's opinions, but there is a common set of facts.
>
> Best,
>
> –Ridge
>
> > On Feb 22, 2017, at 3:51 PM, Dave Farber <farber () gmail com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: "RJR-rjriley" <rjr () rjriley com>
> > > Date: February 22, 2017 at 6:24:27 PM EST
> > > To: "'Paul Alan Levy'" <plevy () citizen org>, <dave () farber net>
> > > Subject: RE: [IP] Re New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >
> > > I am disappointed that Mr. Levy, who I hold in high regard, would chose characterize my belief that limited 
> > > immigration slots be filled by people who have skills which will benefit America, as racism.  I don’t care about 
> > > race.  I think that way too many people are prone to falsely accuse people of racism, when we should be having a 
> > > civil discussion about policy.
> > >  
> > > We have a huge problem with illegal’s, which has come with staggering costs born by taxpayers.  I do not have any 
> > > problem with legal immigration when allowing entry is in America’s interests.
> > >  
> > > Europe has serious problems with refuges they allowed into their respective countries not assimilating.  It is 
> > > foolish to ignore these issues.
> > >  
> > > It is incredibly expensive to bring in people which in many cases will not be productive for a very long time, in 
> > > some case it will only happen in the next generation.
> > >  
> > > When we bring more people in the country which represent deficit spending, we are placing the burden to paying for 
> > > those immigrants on our children and maybe even on grandchildren, is this fair to them?
> > >  
> > > I agree that amending basic civil liberties is a risky business, but so is uncontrolled illegal immigration.  I 
> > > have friends and associates from all over the country, many who live states along the border are up in arms about 
> > > the impact of illegal immigration.
> > >  
> > > Ronald J Riley
> > >  
> > > From: Paul Alan Levy [mailto:plevy () citizen org] 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:44 PM
> > > To: rjr () rjriley com
> > > Subject: FW: [IP] Re New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >  
> > > Are you the same guy I represented a few years ago?
> > >  
> > > Paul Alan Levy
> > > Public Citizen Litigation Group
> > > 1600 20th Street, NW
> > > Washington, D.C. 20009
> > > (202) 588-7725
> > > http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=396
> > > Twitter:  @paulalanlevy
> > > Public Citizen Foundation participates in the Combined Federal Campaign with the CFC Code 11168
> > >  
> > > From: Paul Alan Levy 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:38 PM
> > > To: 'dave () farber net'; ip
> > > Subject: RE: [IP] Re New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >  
> > > “we need to change birthright citizenship”
> > >  
> > > My former client Ron Riley wants to amend the Fourteenth Amendment?   That part of our constitution provides 
> > > (Section 1, first sentence) “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction 
> > > thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
> > >  
> > > Wholly apart from the fact that the plain meaning of this sentence is that the children of immigrants, if born in 
> > > the United States, are citizens, if the Fourteenth Amendment did NOT mean that birth within the US meant 
> > > citizenship regardless of whether the child’s parents were citizens, it would not have succeeded in ensuring that 
> > > the freed slaves, born in the United States, would be considered citizens.
> > >  
> > > Ron’s apparent racism aside (it’s the white immigrants who are desirable), I am not persuaded that starting to 
> > > amend the basic civil rights amendments adopted after the Civil War is a good idea
> > >  
> > > Paul Alan Levy
> > > Public Citizen Litigation Group
> > > 1600 20th Street, NW
> > > Washington, D.C. 20009
> > > (202) 588-7725
> > > http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=396
> > > Twitter:  @paulalanlevy
> > > Public Citizen Foundation participates in the Combined Federal Campaign with the CFC Code 11168
> > >  
> > > From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber () gmail com] 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:53 PM
> > > To: ip
> > > Subject: [IP] Re New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >  
> > > As I said I present all sides
> > >
> > >
> > > Begin forwarded message:
> > >
> > > From: "RJR-rjriley" <rjr () rjriley com>
> > > Date: February 22, 2017 at 4:49:30 PM EST
> > > To: <dave () farber net>
> > > Subject: RE: [IP] New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >
> > > There is no reason that we cannot speed up legit immigration, from more desirable sources.  Also, we can issue work 
> > > permits without an easy path to citizenship.  We also need to change birthright citizenship to one requiring one 
> > > parent to be a citizen or to be naturalized before their child turns 18, and then confer citizenship to the child.
> > >  
> > > For example, there are lots of people in Europe, well educated, with desirable skills who would love to flee the 
> > > problems created by Muslims who refuse to assimilate.
> > >  
> > > There is no innate right to be Allowed into America.
> > >  
> > > Ronald J Riley
> > >  
> > > From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber () gmail com] 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:31 PM
> > > To: ip
> > > Subject: [IP] New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Begin forwarded message:
> > >
> > > From: "Evers Ridgely C." <rce () evers org>
> > > Date: February 22, 2017 at 1:17:57 PM EST
> > > To: Farber David <dave () farber net>
> > > Subject: New Trump Deportation Rules
> > >
> > > Dave,
> > >  
> > > For IP if you wish.
> > >  
> > > New Trump Deportation Rules Allow Far More Expulsions
> > >  
> > > This is remarkably (terrifyingly?) sweeping in its construct.  From the actual order (italics mine):
> > >  
> > > Department personnel should prioritize removable aliens who:
> > > (1) have been convicted of any criminal offense; 
> > > (2) have been charged with any criminal offense that has not been resolved;
> > > (3) have committed acts which constitute a chargeable criminal offense; 
> > > (4) have engaged in fraud or willful misrepresentation in connection with any official matter before a governmental 
> > > agency; 
> > > (5) have abused any program related to receipt of public benefits; 
> > > (6) are subject to a final order of removal but have not complied with their legal obligation to depart the United 
> > > States; or 
> > > (7) in the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security. 
> > > The Director of ICE, the Commissioner of CBP, and the Director of USCIS may, as they determine is appropriate, 
> > > issue further guidance to allocate appropriate resources to prioritize enforcement activities within these 
> > > categories - for example, by prioritizing enforcement activities against removable aliens who are convicted felons 
> > > or who are involved in gang activity or drug trafficking.
> > > Note that being in the US without permission is a "chargeable criminal offense" (condition #3)  Basically, 
> > > therefore, this tasks ICE with kicking out pretty much everyone who is undocumented, with the exception of DREAMers.
> > >  
> > > I live in an agricultural area, where the vast majority of workers are immigrants, mostly undocumented.  Many have 
> > > children born in the US, who have US citizenship but not Mexican citizenship (for example), so the children cannot 
> > > just "go to Mexico."
> > >  
> > > The families are terrified that they will be separated – and not without evidence to support that fear.  We know 
> > > people who, in the past two weeks, have had a parent targeted, arrested, and deported without hearing.
> > >  
> > > –Ridge
> > >  
> > >
> > >
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> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     
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> >
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