Re: ARIN whois

["Steve Dispensa" <dispensa () maverick mwis net>]

I'm really curious now:  What, pray tell, are the "legitimate business
purposes" that *necessitate* the use of open relays?  I'm an ISP admin
myself, and while it is certainly possible that I am missing something, the
longer this thread goes on, the more I doubt it.

Why don't you enlighten us and end this forever?

Also:  "The FBI assures me that it does not matter criminally that access
comes from international sources."  Not criminally, maybe, to the extent
that what they are doing is still criminal, but it makes a hell of a
*practical* difference, as somebody else already pointed out.

 - Steve
___________________________________________
#include <dispensa.mwis.net/std_disclaimer.h>


----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Golding <dgolding () mindspring net>
To: Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>
Cc: Kai Schlichting <kai () pac-rim net>; <nanog () merit edu>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: ARIN whois


> Dean,
>
> Have you considered that, while your stand may be legally correct, it is
> ethically questionable? By leaving your relays open, you invite abuse and
> facilitate the theft of other networks' resources. I can not imagine what
> legitimate purpose you might have for such a practice. Perhaps the most
> disturbing aspect of this is your steady beat on the drum of law and
> order, combined with your strange zeal to block out IP addresses from a
> large block of law abiding folks.
>
> I can only wish you luck in your endevour to have Federal law enforcement
> officials deliver warrant on international spammers. Clearly, those folks
> don't have enough to do, and need the extra work.
>
> - Daniel Golding
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
>
> > These are coming from Mass, Cleveland, Ohio, and Virginia.
> >
> > We use our relays for legitimate business purposes. They are not
"accidentally left open".  We are not going to close them.  We are going to
pursue abusers civilly and criminally.  The FBI assures me that it does not
matter criminally that access comes from international sources.
> > Much of the activity appears to be comming from alleged ANTI-SPAMMERs
such as Chris Neill, and Alan Brown and Ron Guillemette who have been
inciting attacks against us, posting to alt.2600 and advertising our
service.  Inciting criminal acts is a criminal act too, I'm pretty sure. We
make sure to mention them prominently.
> > --Dean
> >
> > Around 11:18 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Kai Schlichting
said:
> > > At 09:16 PM 11/21/99 -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Can someone send me a list of *all* AOL netblocks?  ARIN's whois only
gives back a handful.
> > > > I want to block _all_ AOL netblocks, but its tough to find out what
they are.
> > > > Thanks to a few malicious, radical antispammers (Chris Neill, Alan
Brown, etc) we are getting hit with a large number of criminal mail relays.
Mostly coming from AOL addresses. We have about a half dozen individual
criminal complaints underway.
> > > Don't kid us, Dan. Close your fucking relays (not that any of them talk
to
> > > my hosts anyhow). If this has to be drummed into your bonehead again:
THEY
> > > WILL FIND YOUR RELAYS ON THEIR OWN, AND THEY WILL ABUSE THEM, NO MATTER
> > > HOW LOUD YOU SCREAM. THEY SIT IN CHINA, PAKISTAN AND KOREA, AND THERE
IS
> > > NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THEM SHORT OF CALLING THE WHITEHOUSE AND
GETTING
> > > THESE PLACES INVADED. Alternatively, you could come to your senses and
> > > shut the literal front door of your house now that you've finally
noticed
> > > the first unsavory characters passing by. A couple years after the rest
> > > of us, no doubt.
> > >
> > > And they won't need ORBS or any other service to locate you, either.
> > > Stop complaining. No more secrets (now that's from Scott Yelich's
tagline).
> > > bye,Kai
> > >
> > > --
> > > kai () conti nu             "Just say No" to Spam            Kai
Schlichting
> > > Palo Alto, New York, You name it             Sophisticated Technical
Peon
> > > Kai's SpamShield <tm> is FREE!
http://SpamShield.Conti.nu
> > > |
|
> >
> LeasedLines-FrameRelay-IPLs-ISDN-PPP-Cisco-Consulting-VoiceFax-Data-Muxes
> >
> WorldWideWebAnything-Intranets-NetAdmin-UnixAdmin-Security-ReallyHardMath
> > >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >            Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
> >            LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++