nanog mailing list archives
Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery)
From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike () swm pp se>
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:03:15 +0200 (CEST)
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Deepak Jain wrote:
Depends on your traffic type and I think this really depends on the granularity of your study set (when you are calculating 80-90% usage). If you upgrade early, or your (shallow) packet buffers convince to upgrade late, the effects might be different.
My guess is that the value comes from mrtg or alike, 5 minute average utilization.
If you do upgrades assuming the same amount of latency and packet loss on any circuit, you should see the same effect irrespective of buffer depth. (for any production equipment by a main vendor).
I do not agree. A shallow buffer device will give you packet loss without any major latency increase, whereas a deep buffer device will give you latency without packet loss (as most users out there will not have sufficient tcp window size to utilize a 300+ ms latency due to buffering, they will throttle back their usage of the link, and it can stay at 100% utilization without packet loss for quite some time).
Yes, these two cases will both enable link utilization to get to 100% on average, and in most cases users will actually complain less as the packet loss will most likely be less noticable to them in traceroute than the latency increase due to buffering.
Anyhow, I still consider a congested backbone an operational failure as one is failing to provide adequate service to the customers. Congestion should happen on the access line to the customer, nowhere else.
Deeper buffers allow you to run closer to 100% (longer) with fewer packet drops at the cost of higher latency. The assumption being that more congested devices with smaller buffers are dropping some packets here and there and causing those sessions to back off in a way the deeper buffer systems don't.
Correct.
Its a business case whether its better to upgrade early or buy gear that lets you upgrade later.
It depends on your bw cost, if your link is very expensive then it might make sense to use manpower opex and equipment capex to prolong the usage of that link by trying to cram everything you can out of it. In the long run there is of course no way to avoid upgrade, as users will notice it anyhow.
-- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike () swm pp se
Current thread:
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery), (continued)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Sean Donelan (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Sean Donelan (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Randy Bush (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Fred Baker (Aug 16)
- RE: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) michael.dillon (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Hex Star (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Stephen Wilcox (Aug 17)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Patrick W. Gilmore (Aug 17)
- RE: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Mikael Abrahamsson (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Deepak Jain (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Mikael Abrahamsson (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Fred Baker (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Mikael Abrahamsson (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Perry Lorier (Aug 18)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Mikael Abrahamsson (Aug 19)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Alexander Harrowell (Aug 21)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Mikael Abrahamsson (Aug 21)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Joe Provo (Aug 19)
- RE: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) michael.dillon (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Adrian Chadd (Aug 16)
- Re: Extreme congestion (was Re: inter-domain link recovery) Alexander Harrowell (Aug 17)