nanog mailing list archives
Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers)
From: Steven Champeon <schampeo () hesketh com>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:29:25 -0500
on Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 08:11:18AM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:
I'd say that Mikael Abrahamsson's sentiment (or at least the way I read it) would be a better start: take a step back and ask what the problem is.
Well, as I see it, the problem is a widespread and systemic failure to prevent massive abuses from being perpetrated by unauthorized software in the control of entities other than the administrators of those networks and servers in question, resulting in a near-total breakdown of trust in any given unknown host's reputation, resulting in desparate attempts to gain insight into which hosts might be trusted and which not, using what means may be available (naming, whois, DNSBLs, etc.)
Naming conventions blah, blah, blah all started from the _lack_ of a standard and trying to educe knowledge from chaos. In other words, a bunch of hacks. Which doesn't work especially well, especially when every RBL has its own hack.
Well, I'd like to think my approach (name-based, rather than IP-based) works fairly well, going as it does in the names you give your IPs and whatever other public information may be available, but I understand your frustration with the various approaches used by IP-based DULs; I can also understand the lack of patience on the side of the DUL operators. The situation is a mess.
If IETF can do something here, which seems plausible, it would be to actually define the problem and _then_ write a protocol to fit the needs of the problem. Maybe it's using DNS, maybe it's not. Maybe it uses naming conventions (ick), probably it does not. But if it were standardized, it would at least be predictable which the current situation manifestly is not.
Like it or not, naming conventions are useful and powerful and widespread. Would you rather have to deal with inbound mail from 134.25.177.41-get-allinone-adsl-and-free-webhosting-for-only-r189.saol.com or 196-200-118.isnigeria or one-of-hosts-our-net.dn.cv.ua [194.146.136.24] or dressless-debate.volia.net [77.123.181.13] or dont-blame-admin-its-a-dsl-pool-251-41.wobline.de or cable-66-103-40-69.clarenville.dyn.personainc.net [66.103.40.69] or 200.72.157.254: pcdibujante2.eiser.local ?
To Crocker's point though: if IETF came up with a way to publish your network's dynamic space (assuming that's The Problem!), would operators do that? Or is this another case where the energy barrier is too high?
It's not just dynamics, either. Static generic IPs also emit spam and abuse. Finding all the dynamics on the Net would only stop from half to maybe two thirds of the traffic we see, for example. http://enemieslist.com/news/archives/2009/07/why_we_suspect.html Steve -- hesketh.com/inc. v: +1(919)834-2552 f: +1(919)834-2553 w: http://hesketh.com/ antispam news and intelligence to help you stop spam: http://enemieslist.com/
Current thread:
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers, (continued)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Sven Olaf Kamphuis (Dec 10)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Raymond Dijkxhoorn (Dec 10)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers John Levine (Dec 10)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Michelle Sullivan (Dec 16)
- RE: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Mark Scholten (Dec 16)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers William Pitcock (Dec 16)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Joe Greco (Dec 10)
- best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Steven Champeon (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Michael Thomas (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: ArrogantRBL list maintainers) O'Reirdan, Michael (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Steven Champeon (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Mark Andrews (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Michael Thomas (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Joe Abley (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Michael Thomas (Dec 10)
- Re: best practices for PTR naming and whois (was, sadly, Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers) Steven Champeon (Dec 10)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Michelle Sullivan (Dec 16)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Steven Champeon (Dec 16)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Mike Lieman (Dec 16)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Steven Champeon (Dec 17)
- Re: Arrogant RBL list maintainers Michael Holstein (Dec 17)