nanog mailing list archives
Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks
From: Ca By <cb.list6 () gmail com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:20:54 -0700
On Thursday, July 28, 2016, Dovid Bender <dovid () telecurve com> wrote:
The issue is that cloudfare in a way is generating their own market. If the ddos sites weren't protected by cloudfare they would eat each other alive. It's in their interest that their sites stay up so there is a need for their service. When GoDaddy hosts a bad site they aren't causing customer to sign up for the exact service for the protection they need from the bad site.
I feel the same way about all the ddos protection rackets. But i genuinely feel Cloudflare is just a cdn that got good at fending off ddos just to stay alive. And they do a lot of good things with IPv6, dnssec, TLS 1.2++ , and open source. It is not fair to blame them for our (network operators) negligent open udp ampliers. We are the real problems. If Cloudflare did not host them, someone else would. Perhaps only on tor. But once you remove the open dns amplifiers, or put up the appropriate acls (bcp38 + blocks obviously abused ssdp, dns, ntp to the extent you can) , then you have really taking ddos capacity offline
Regards, Dovid -----Original Message----- From: TR Shaw <tshaw () oitc com <javascript:;>> Sender: "NANOG" <nanog-bounces () nanog org <javascript:;>>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:45:14 To: Donn Lasher<D.Lasher () f5 com <javascript:;>> Cc: nanog () nanog org <javascript:;><nanog () nanog org <javascript:;>> Subject: Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricksOn Jul 28, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Donn Lasher via NANOG <nanog () nanog org<javascript:;>> wrote:On 7/28/16, 10:17 AM, "NANOG on behalf of J. Oquendo" <nanog-bounces () nanog org <javascript:;> on behalf of joquendo () e-fensive net <javascript:;>> wrote:While many are chanting: #NetworkLivesMatter, I have yet to see, read, or hear about any network provider being the first to set precedence by either de-peering, or blocking traffic from Cloudflare. There is a lot of keyboard posturing: "I am mad and I am not going to take it anymore" hooplah but no one is lifting a finger to do anything other than regurgitate "I am mad... This is criminal."(long discussion, was waiting for a place to jump in..) If we want to be accurate about it, Cloudflare doesn’t host the DDoS,they protect the website of seller of the product. We shouldn’t be de-peering Cloud Flare over sites they protect any more than we would de-peer GoDaddy over sites they host, some of which, no doubt, sell gray/black market/illegal items/services.If, on the other hand, you can find a specific network actuallygenerating the volumes of DDoS, you should have a conversation about de-peering….$0.02…It would be nice however if Cloudflare would announce there “freebie” ciders and the IP block that host their paying customers. Most of the abuse centers on the free clients.
Current thread:
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks, (continued)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks McDonald Richards (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks J. Oquendo (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Seth Mattinen (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks McDonald Richards (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Seth Mattinen (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Stephen Satchell (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks J. Oquendo (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Donn Lasher via NANOG (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks TR Shaw (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Dovid Bender (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Ca By (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Owen DeLong (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Ca By (Jul 28)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Rich Kulawiec (Jul 29)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks J. Oquendo (Jul 29)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Hugo Slabbert (Jul 29)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Valdis . Kletnieks (Jul 29)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks bzs (Jul 29)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Owen DeLong (Jul 30)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks bzs (Jul 30)
- Re: Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks Baldur Norddahl (Jul 30)