Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: The legal / illegal line?
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:24:11 +1100
Dotzero is correct, you can point out concerns to the party you have contracted to and have them ask the third party to do something, or stay away. Worse still, in many common law juristictions (inc the US, UK, Au etc) you may be breaking the law further by not freely giving any information on the scan to the third party (tp). First there is no contract with the TP to cover you for any damages (and scans can cause hosts to crash = damage). Next, you have no implied or explict license to engage in the action, thus a breach of the TP's rights. Thus if you call them after the even stating something along the lines of "I have scanned your system and discovered vulnerability X, I will send you the report for $1,000" for instance, you could be held to have committed extortion. Where the TP exchanges money for the report, not only have you handed them proof of the action, but this is now blackmail. Next, consideration can not pass after the event in a contract. Thus if the party pays you, even where there is no criminal liability, they can bring suit to regain the payment from you in that there was no valid contract and the payment may be revoked. People and firms have a legal right to ignorance. As much as we may want to change this, they have the right to live in their own stupidity and bare their own risk. You do not have the right to make them agree with you - even if you are right. Regards, Craig -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Dotzero Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2007 6:52 AM To: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Re: The legal / illegal line? The original question from Barry was about legal vs illegal. There is only one (IMHO) answer to that question. It depends on jurisdiction. The laws that apply in one jurisdiction may not apply in another. I'm also concerned about Barry asking about when others "approach a client" to tell them about their insecurities following a "simple pen-test".. They are NOT your client unless they have engaged you. They are a potential client. They have no relationship with you and you have not been authorized by them to do anything on their behalf. Even if you haven't done anything illegal, most companies I'm familiar with would be unlikely to hire you or your company under such circumstances. The actions you describe are indicative of a failure to recognize appropriate boundaries. A more reasonable approach (and one more likely to attract business) would be to have your sales people pitch a free security assessment. Have a standard agreement authorizing a standard but limited set of activities that you can then use to show a potential client how they might benefit from your services. As usual, just my 2 cents. dotzero ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps? Cenzic Hailstorm finds vulnerabilities fast. Click the link to buy it, try it or download Hailstorm for FREE. http://www.cenzic.com/products_services/download_hailstorm.php?camp=7016 00000008bOW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation in respect of matters arising within those States and Territories of Australia where such legislation exists. DISCLAIMER The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use or disclose the information. If you have received this email in error, please inform us promptly by reply email or by telephoning +61 2 9286 5555. Please delete the email and destroy any printed copy. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. You may not rely on this message as advice unless it has been electronically signed by a Partner of BDO or it is subsequently confirmed by letter or fax signed by a Partner of BDO. BDO accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email or its attachments due to viruses, interference, interception, corruption or unauthorised access. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Need to secure your web apps? Cenzic Hailstorm finds vulnerabilities fast. Click the link to buy it, try it or download Hailstorm for FREE. http://www.cenzic.com/products_services/download_hailstorm.php?camp=701600000008bOW ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- RE: The legal / illegal line?, (continued)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Dotzero (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Martin Zimmermann (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Security Guy (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? David Swafford (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Paul Robertson (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Justin Ross (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 06)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Higinio Orsini (Mar 06)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- Message not available
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 09)
- Message not available
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 09)
- Message not available