Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: The legal / illegal line?
From: "Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:40:01 +1100
A contract can be verbal. All that is required for a contract is offer, acceptance and consideration. This said there is the issue of evidence. Martin is correct when he states " Never _ever_ engage in anything without a signed "get of of jail letter"." You may have a contract with a verbal agreement, but you try and prove it in court. Worse, an email (though taken as a written agreement) does not give you the ability to presume authority. The system admin may not have the rights to have you do the test. At least with a Deed (a signed, sealed and delivered contract for ease of explanation), you have something to fall on and cover your arse. If the other party had falsely attested that they could authorise you to do the scan, you have a piece of paper supporting this and you can make your own life much easier in the long run. Regards, Craig -----Original Message----- From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Martin Zimmermann Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2007 8:53 AM To: Dotzero Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Re: The legal / illegal line? Never _ever_ engage in anything without a signed "get of of jail letter" + an quite specific agreement stating what you are authorized to do and what the potentiel riscs are. Dotzero is very right in concluding that they are _not_ in any way a client until a signed agreement exsists. I can only imagine very few (and somewhat far fetched) situations where you "discover" a vulnerability without "crossing the line", both in relation to the law and morally. Besides no serious client would ever hire a pen-test team that "pre-pens" them. It shows a complete lack of professionalism and often borders on black-mail in most situations of cases I've come across. And it qiute frankly sounds like you crossed the line! Just my 1½ cent Martin - Dotzero skrev:
The original question from Barry was about legal vs illegal. There is only one (IMHO) answer to that question. It depends on jurisdiction. The laws that apply in one jurisdiction may not apply in another. I'm also concerned about Barry asking about when others "approach a client" to tell them about their insecurities following a "simple pen-test".. They are NOT your client unless they have engaged you. They are a potential client. They have no relationship with you and you have not been authorized by them to do anything on their behalf. Even if you haven't done anything illegal, most companies I'm familiar with would be unlikely to hire you or your company under such circumstances. The actions you describe are indicative of a failure to recognize appropriate boundaries. A more reasonable approach (and one more likely to attract business) would be to have your sales people pitch a free security assessment. Have a standard agreement authorizing a standard but limited set of activities that you can then use to show a potential client how they might benefit from your services. As usual, just my 2 cents. dotzero
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Current thread:
- Re: The legal / illegal line?, (continued)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Dotzero (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Martin Zimmermann (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Security Guy (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? David Swafford (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Paul Robertson (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Justin Ross (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Chris Travers (Mar 06)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 05)
- Re: The legal / illegal line? Higinio Orsini (Mar 06)
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 06)
- Message not available
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 09)
- Message not available
- RE: The legal / illegal line? Craig Wright (Mar 09)
- Message not available