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Re: CAUTION: Long Rant!!! Re: [Snort-sigs] Broken 1429.2 (POLICY poll.gotomypc.c

From: "M. Shirk" <shirkdog_linux () hotmail com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:12:53 -0400
Aside from that Juan guy from a month ago, everyone is cool.
(keep in mind to those that don't know, after he got his sensor up and running through the daunting efforts of everyone on the snort-users list, he started posting to pen-test () securityfocus com about pen-testing his network. I think someone else caught it too:-))
Everyone collaborates, and everyone loves snort, that is all that is required (in my opinion). But if someone does post that they can not create the iso for fedora, or boot up the bootable cdrom, they deserved to be tortured (from my moderating duty for a bootable linux distro, Hi Tebo!). Its security, its the edge we all enjoy.
Tell me if this fits a general idea of the Snort community. I quote from the book Absolute OpenBSD by Michael Lucas, Chapter 0, OpenBSD Users.
"The OpenBSD community generally expects users to be advanced computer users. They have written extensive documentation about OpenBSD, and expect people to be willing to read it. They're not interested in coddling new UNIX users and will say so if pressed. They don't object to new UNIX users using OpenBSD, but do object to people asking them for basic UNIX help just because they happen to be running OpenBSD."
I think this fits ( but that is my opionion), anyone who disagrees should be sacked! 

:-)

Shirkdog



From: Matt Jonkman <matt () infotex com>
Reply-To: mjonkman () infotex com
To: Bamm Visscher <bamm.visscher () gmail com>
CC: Eric Hines <eric.hines () appliedwatch com>, mjonkman () infotex com, Brian <bmc () snort org>, snort-sigs () lists sourceforge net, snort-users () lists sourceforge net Subject: Re: CAUTION: Long Rant!!! Re: [Snort-sigs] Broken 1429.2 (POLICY poll.gotomypc.com access) 
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:20:31 -0500
Keeping this short, I hope we don't get this into a flame war. It's not supposed to be that. Hopping off lurker status to throw a dart isn't going to help the discussion at all. (Like the dart reference? :) ) 

A couple quick points: Comment on them if you like:
1. I do think it's reasonable that a forum of professional adults can interact without personal attacks and flame wars. Will it happen, likely not. There's always the kindergartner waiting to spring out of any of us. :) But I hope we can avoid dwelling on or letting it drone on.
2. I don't think it unreasonable to hawk your wares once in a while in the normal course of discussion. I haven't heard Eric do anything out of line. We're all here to make a living. My firm gives bleeding the resources to do what it does not out of the goodness of it's heart but the desire to build recognition and reputation. If you think anything else you need to take off the rose-colored glasses. If you're not selling something or providing a service you're using the knowledge shared here to protect yourself. We're all in it for ourselves, but we've realized sharing information benefits us all.
BTW: The links you provided weren't a discussion with Eric in it as far as I saw. So not sure about what you were referring to. But I hope we can just drop it.
The point of the thread is to try to build a productive working relationship between bleeding snort and it's users, and snort.org/sourcefire. No personal squabbles are more important than that (or even relevant to this list). We need to grow up. Myself included in that statement. 

Matt



Bamm Visscher wrote:

I'll admit to also being the type (like Brian) who abuses the sarcasm
key on his keyboard on a regular basis. Sometimes, people Some may
even consider my personality abusive  (a good friend recently joked
that it's a wonder I have as many friends as I do). I've also been on
opposite sides of heated discussions with practically everyone with a
snort.org mailing address (I think my picture may be permanently
affixed to Marty's dart board). With that said, I have to back Brian
on this. These lists have many different types of personalities, and
to think flame wars and other heated discussions aren't going to occur
in such a public forum is simply ignorant.  The important part is that
the parties involved either reconcile, agree to disagree, or whatever.
Looks like that has occurred in this case and it's unfortunate that
you felt the need to jump in and stir the pot (why the cross posts to
snort-users?).

In further defense of Brian, I don't see how his response to your
posts are 'out of line'. Most of the time your posts are really just
poor attempts to pimp your proprietary product or "research paper" and
while trying to disguise it as help or advice anyway.  I think this
[0] is the post you were refering to and here [1] is Brian's response.
 Read the entire thread to get a bigger picture.  See, the problem
with these posts of yours is they are flat out wrong, yet you attempt
to protray yourself as an authority on the subject and then you get
upset when someone calls you out.

And finally, this quote from you just cracks me up, especially coming
from someone who seems to feel the neeed  to ammend a bunch of
meaningless certs and an irrelevant title to every posts.
One thing in life you'll learn pretty quickly is that respect is earned, not 
given to you because of your status or who you are.



Bammkkkk

P.S.

BTW, this post is NOT a solicitation for you to contact me directly in
an attempt to pimp your product (again).  I shouldn't need to add
this, but you seem to have a lack of common sense in that regards.
[0] http://www.pantek.com/library/general/lists/snort.org/snort-sigs/msg00133.html [1] http://www.pantek.com/library/general/lists/snort.org/snort-sigs/msg00138.html 
  On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:07:27 -0500, Eric Hines
<eric.hines () appliedwatch com> wrote:


Brian,

I will have to concur with Matt Jonkman here. You have a track record of
degrading people in open forums and have done so to me on several occasions with no hesitation since I first started posting. The first occurrence I can remember was attempting to help the community make signatures for a new worm that came out. Your only response was to attack me for using reserved SIDs. 
You attack people on a consistent basis and am frankly getting sick and
tired of you and your ego trips.
One instance recently I'd like to bring up was your response to my post to Sam Evans who was inquiring about anyone who had run Vmware server + Snort. I merely offered the fact that several of our customers use it and you took 
the opportunity to not only attack my post but put words in my mouth and
attacked me in an open forum while doing so.

I don't know what your story is Brian, but everyone I've spoken to that
you've ripped a new hole in on mailing lists would like to see your attitude take a major change. After all, you are the face of snort.org -- you should 
represent it with more professionalism and courtesy to the community.

Thank God someone here had the audacity to finally say something to you.
One thing in life you'll learn pretty quickly is that respect is earned, not 
given to you because of your status or who you are.


Eric Hines, GCIA, CISSP
CEO, President
Applied Watch Technologies, Inc.









--
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Senior Security Engineer
Infotex
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